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Author Topic: Klonopin? Scared to take it.  (Read 3971 times)

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Offline WiSp

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2011, 04:17:28 AM »
I talk about a fix because actually SSRIs also train the brain to act differently. This is why some people can stop to take it one day, and never need to take one again, until a major event break the balance. Upon stopping a SSRI for example, the brain will rush for some time, and try to reproduce how it was with the med, taking it for being something good because of all the time on it with no bad consequences. It doesn't work like this everytime, but it's wonderful when it happens.

I know that we don't fully understand how they work. My word, "fix" is maybe too big, I know. But I see it like this:

Benzos work by enhancing the effect of GABA neurotransmitters , and therefore increase the strength of the message sent by GABA, i.e.: telling the neurons to calm down. So, whatever the anxiety source is, benzos don't work on what is causing it. We just use GABA to calm everything down. This is why I call benzo "a patch" and not a fix.

If I see SSRIs like a fix, it's because they actively modify the quantity of neurotransmitters responsible with their unbalance to increase anxiety and depression. Neurotransmitters being:
serotonin linked to SSRIs, epinephrine and norepinephrine linked to SNRIs, and dopamine linked to some SNRIs like effexor and antipsychotics linked to every of them and even some others
Of course we cannot say that the main neurotransmitters that we think to be responsible of anxiety and depression, are the only source. This is your point and you are right. We know, for example, that amygdala in the brain is also a crucial source, responsible of the management of "anxiety signals". But you surely understand my point. SSRIs, SNRIs and antipsychotics work on the more potent source that we discovered for now, to physically change the quantity of neurotransmitters by blocking their re-uptake and have a direct impact on the output anxiety and depression. While GABA is only covering the stress signal by a large quantity of GABA, boosted with benzos.

You could take benzos for years, the thing that doesn't work good with your concerned neurotransmitters will not change, and during all this time, the consequences will be inhibited by a powerful quantity of GABA, calming down neurons. Some live like this. But for me, the problem is still there, in your brain.
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Offline gcalex

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2011, 07:12:10 AM »
I don't think we know how SSRIs work, based on my reading.  Many now theorize they work not by changing neurotransmitter levels but by growing new neurons (neurogenesis).  This would explain why they don't work right away. 
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Offline WiSp

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2011, 08:40:41 PM »
We don't really know how depression and anxiety issues work, as we don't really know how SSRIs work. You are right. I've read about neurogenesis. Not only SSRIs would do it, but also exercising. We could ask, do neurogenesis is directly responsible to help, or is it a simple reaction to exercise or taking a SSRIs? This is extremely complex. Changes in the neurotransmission (by an SSRI) could also have several negative impacts on the brain and rise the problem. The result when trying a SSRI, good, bad, or neither, could be the sum of negative impacts + positives impacts induced by the SSRI or consequences resulting of it. There are probably a great number of impacts on each side, of course most of them are unknown. The neurotransmitter re-uptake is only one of them. And this is why it's the most popular explication.
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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2011, 09:18:54 PM »
I have been on Klonopin for almost two years. .5 is a fairly low dose. Klonopin for me at least seems to slow the thoughts down and that makes anxiety easier to handle. It's not a fix but it can calm you down. I wouldn't worry too much about taking .5mg You will probably just get tired.
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Offline gcalex

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2011, 11:14:15 PM »
Nor do we understand why there is a 40 percent or greater positive reaction to a sugar pill....
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Offline traditionalgirl75

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2011, 08:25:25 AM »
I was so0o0o0o0o0o0o00o0oo0o AFRAID to take clonazapam. But my anxiety got to the point that I needed something. After I took it I realized that it helped with the anxiety ( temporarily) & made me sleepy, but it did help ease the anxiety. I only take it when needed , but I do think that i'm ***** the point where I need something on a daily basis. I just need to build up the nerve to do so :/
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Offline MylesMom08

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2011, 03:10:34 PM »
Thanks everyone.
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Offline constantmover

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2011, 09:35:55 AM »
I hope I'm not too late to chime in on this topic.  MylesMom08, you asked what seemed to be a pretty simple question/statement.  You felt some fear of starting a new medication.  There are always going to be those that agree with a certain medication and those that don't.  As much as I feel it important to be educated on the medications one takes, I also feel it important to make someone feel comfortable and not scare someone off medication just because it isn't right for them.  What has been stated here, to be completely frank, shows that we really don't know if this medication will work for you or not.  The reason for this (this is just me talking not the rest who have responded to this thread) is that no matter what way you slice it, we are all different and whether someone thinks benzos like klonopin is a bandage solution or that SSRIs, SNRIs, etc. can eventually change the balance of serotonin, etc., therefore one can go off it with the possibility of the change being permanent...this is all simply a crap shoot. 

Lots of people are afraid of benzos because of the "addictive" nature of them and yet SSRI are extremely difficult to get off of as well.  Having said that, so are many medications for various other disorders and diseases.  We simply don't know enough about medications for anxiety to state what is consistently good and what isn't.  More doctors who are invested in finding out what really helps people who present with anxiety as their primary issue (not depression which can become secondary because of the anxiety) are going back to the older medications...ie:  klonopin, valium because they have found that some of their patients simply don't respond well to the newer SSRIs or SNRIs.  I say new even though these have been around for many years now.  Back in my mother's day, half the women carried valium around with them.  When SSRIs came out, there was a big push for doctors to try the "new and better" way of dealing with anxiety.  Well new and better for some, has been great but for a good many of us, it has been not so great.  SSRIs and SNRIs were developed primarily for people with depression and then some of the them became noted to be helpful for anxiety sufferers.  Paxil, at one time was the go to medication for this and was approved for anxiety disorder.  Now, most doctor's have stopped prescribing it because they found for many of their patients, it isn't such a wonder drug.  For those who are still taking it and having success, wonderful!, but for a very many, it hasn't been so great and is extremely difficult to get off of.  Many reports have stated such.  My own doctor who put me on it doesn't prescribe it to any of his patient anymore. 

The bottom line here is, whether klonopin or any other benzo is a bandage solution, is kind of irrelevant, in my opinion.  You tell me how many other drugs for other disorders or disease aren't bandage solutions.  My daughter has epilepsy.  She has been taking medication for it for over 30 years.  Believe me, it is definitely a bandage solution.  I've seen her EEGs and all the medication is doing is disguising that she still has epilepsy.  Would she go off medication because it is a bandage solution?  Absolutely NOT!  If she did, frankly she would die.  That is how many seizures she still has even with medication taken three times a day.  I hope this puts things in perspective for those who worry about bandage solutions versus cure or rebalancing of neurotransmitters etc.  In my opinion, if it makes you feel better by taking a benzo, especially a long acting benzo like klonopin, on a daily basis, then go for it. I'm of the opinion that, at least in my case, I was born with this disorder, it's in my genetic makeup, so I don't believe that rebalancing will happen.  I went without meds for many years but as I've gotten older, I simply have a better quality of life with meds than without.

Personally, I've tried all kinds of SSRIs, SNRIs, and many other types of anti-depressants including beta blockers (which are really pretty good but just not for me) and I have now been on clonazepam (klonopin) .5 mg twice a day for over 3 years and it has been a Godsend for me.  Sure at first, you may feel a little sleepy, but your body adjusts within a couple of weeks.  Some people don't even have that feeling.  I sleep well at night and it does the trick for me regarding my GAD and panic.  By the way, klonopin was originally developed and used for epilepsy but generally isn't used for that today.  It is best used as an anti-anxiety medication and used on a daily basis so that there is a constant level in the body.  Taken this way, one generally never has to up the dosage as what can happen with the shorter acting benzos (ativan, xanax).  Long acting benzos have been around for a long time so you will find there are people who have been on them for many years without having upped their meds the entire time.  It isn't unusually to find people who have been taking it for 15 years. 

Take what you want from what I've written, but I'm just telling it like I see it.  If I were you and I have been in your position...terrified to go on this medication for fear of addiction etc., but from where I stand, I need the meds., they do what I want and if I ever want to go off (which is unlikely because I also take it for essential tremor because I can't take a beta blocker) I would go on a very careful stepping out programme to reduce side effects.  One can get side effects from any drug they have been on for an extended period of time and would have to step out carefully to reduce the effects.  So don't let that stop you from trying any medication that you feel may help you no matter what issues you are having.   
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Offline MylesMom08

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2011, 07:10:18 PM »
well if it helps anyone, I discovered why it races my heart. i have dysautomia, and it causes low blood pressure which INCREASES my heart rate to compensate, so when I thought it was anxiety, I popped a klonopin and BAM, lowered BP more so therefor my HR went BAM more. yyuup :)
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Offline constantmover

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2011, 11:18:54 PM »
Wow, MylesMom08!  So glad you figure this out.  Funny, I have low bp and that is why I can't take a beta blocker.  It makes my bp so low that it is actually dangerous for me to take it.  Even though I have low bp, it hasn't really made a difference with taking clonazepam (klonopin).  So what are you considering now or do you feel you need anything since the anxiety seems to be related now or, at least enhanced, by klonopin?  Will you or can you treat the dysautomia?  Thanks for letting us know!
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Offline MylesMom08

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2011, 07:15:06 PM »
constantmover:

I dont feel bad now either! They actually tried Nadolol, beta blocker, on me but I got dizzy standing up and went to the ER. It sure helped the rapid heart rate, but in a bad way. lol

Dsyautonomia is still kind of new to the medical field. I know its only been extensively studied since 1997, which isnt enough time to really track a theral study, like process if pills work or if people grow out of it naturally, or if someone gets a medical issue if it was caused by this that or what. I know the MayoClinic is one of the top researchers.

But from what my doctor told me who trained at the MayoClinic but works in his own practice now, they are actually trying SSRI's to treat it. Since it mimics anxiety/panic, they think the same parts of the brain work on it. And maybe correcting that part can help. Thats probably why I felt great on lexapro after 2 weeks, but then worse after 4 weeks cause to much built up (or something funny my dr said)
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Offline WiSp

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2011, 09:14:10 PM »
Yes if you have the money to pay for the test...

I live in Canada so it's out of my reach. But I'm still surprised that my psychiatrist knows nothing about this test. He is the best of all the region, giving conferences, and participating in a lot of psychiatry events etc. Maybe he just don't want to spend his precious time to still experimental discoveries. Or he waits that the new stuff reaches Canada.
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Offline HealingJourney

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2011, 10:20:03 PM »
Genetic drug tests have been in Canada for at least 10 years. Longer in the USA. Many doctors dont keep up with research on non-drug options
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Offline WiSp

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Re: Klonopin? Scared to take it.
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2011, 10:32:45 PM »
Many doctors dont keep up with research on non-drug options
But THIS is a drug based option because it's to determine the best drug for a precise patient. I got articles written in Canada about the test. It's from 2006. It's impossible that my doctor is not informed about it. Maybe he just wanted to avoid explanations because it's complex and still not available here. Even if there are articles I'm pretty sure the test itself cannot be done at least in the province I am. Or the test is not accurate enough. This thing should have been in psychiatry magazines and stuff like that. Maybe that there are a lot of new things and too much are still experimental and not got his attention...well I will try to find the truth.
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