Another do I have OCD post..

[visitor]

Hi,
I know you are not Doctors and can not give me a diagnosis. But well I have very strange symptoms that do not really fall into the usual categories.
..Well..okay.here it is..

It started with a boy I liked long ago. I was very intimidated by him. I've always been a little anxious anyhow and he was really like a genius level person and I really fell for him. It was like my first experience of being in love. Anyhow everything I said to him came out wrong. I could never say things the way I wanted to. I wanted to say really great things but it was like a was under Novocaine and like specially challenged or something. It was also a time of transitioning from high school to college. I was under a lot of stress and I had no plans or idea what to do with my future.

Anyhow during this time I developed this awful compulsion. I still do it to this day. No longer with that boy in mind. It is always involving someone who intimidates me, and whom I want to impress. I replay the unsatisfactory conversation in my mind and then I interject it with things I should have said. Then I keep repeating this new thing or things I should have said often time out load when nobody is around. It is embarrassing because their have been times I've been overheard by a roomate or something and I think they think that I am crazier then I actually am. But I have only been caught a couple time by people I try to keep it hidden. I try not to say things out loud. It is kind of like I am reliving the conversation in that I get a rush of emotion that I didn't get the first time around. I get this strange energy from it as if it is stimulating somehow or pleasant but actually it is not.

It is triggered by stress big time. To the point that I avoid stress altogether. My family doesn't know. I've told my boyfriend about it but he's really cool and it didn't really phase him much almost to the point where he doesn't maybe fully understand. Which is fine.

So this group of internet strangers is only the second time I've ever communicated this.  When in college I read an article about the brain circuitry involved in OCD and how a behavioral therapy strategy is to not strengthen the circuit by trying to stop the behavior. I now employ this and it does help a lot, I am better then I was years ago, but in times of stress. For example after a bad social encounter it can last a while before I can get it under control.

So I wonder if this is my issue..

[ocdengineer]

That sounds like OCD to me.  It also sounds like you have a decent grasp of the situation.  The article you read was excellent advice and it will eventually lead to you being free of this compulsion.  Now I think you have to learn to deal with the situation in times of stress as well.  It may be hard, but it seems like your last hurdle.  You should check out the books "Stop obsessing" and "Brain Lock".  Both will teach you little ways to face those fears and stop the compulsion.  It sounds like you are half way there already, so keep it up.

Good luck,
OE

[visitor]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I  never thought I suffered from this issue because I had always associated OCD with actions. It was when I was in college in an abnormal psychology class that I was assigned to research this disorder and was surprised to find that compulsions/obsessions could also be thoughts. It explained a lot, but yet I still wasn't sure if it fit.  But poking around here I can see that really it does seem to fit.  The behavior is strange, repetitive, and hard to control and it seems those are some of the hallmarks of the disorder.  I just haven't read of anyone having this exact same compulsion but I guess it can come in many different forms?

It's extra stressful that I have to be really careful not to accidentally be seen doing this in public. The catch is that my anxiety is often  triggered more in public then it is when I'm at  home. I can mumble these reconstructed conversations under my breath, relatively undetected  but I worry my facial expression could alter at the same time to match the conversation and that would look freaky and weird. One time a friend at work asked me if I talk to myself. I just told her casually that yeah I do. She accepted this and is one of my best friends and has no idea. It worked because people do talk to themselves sometimes. Sane people.

I feel as if I have narrowed my life to avoid anxiety and therefore my life is just not as full as I would like it to be.
I think I have always suffered from a bit of social anxiety as well. I'd like to try an anti-anxiety drug to lower my overall anxiety.  I've been reluctant to do so because I'm not sure how I feel about pharmaceuticals but if anxiety is interfering with my life  I suppose I might as well try.

[ocdengineer]

Read the books first and see if you can't gain some perspective from them.  They were very helpful to me.  I also use mindfulness meditation to alleviate the thoughts that trigger the compulsion.  I have different OC Spectrum disorder called Pure O where I simply have intrusive thoughts that cause me tremendous anxiety.  I have managed to rid myself of the thoughts, but the general anxiety lives on and for that I do take an antianxiety med.  I would just advise that you try all the alternative options such as herbal remedies like Kava, meditation, CBT, eating well, exercise, etc. before you turn to the medication.  Medications also have nother group of problems associated with them in the form of side effects.  Some of which really suck!

Good luck,
OE

[visitor]

I want to thank you for taking the time to respond. It feels nice that I can talk about these things, something I've never really done before, and not feel judged. I guess as weird as my behaviors are they are not that strange in the context of this website.

Anyhow, you take anti anxiety medication? And this works for some extent for you?

I feel like I don't even need a super duper miracle drug (although that would be nice)- I just need something to take the edge off so that I'm not so sensitive, jumpy, high strung and worrisome all the time. I just need like an old fashion dulling agent or something. Sometimes when I'm sick or short on sleep I have this feeling like a don't care and I feel like if only I could capture that feeling. If only I had a thicker skin I think I would be more brave. I wish I could just not care so much about everything it is very tiring.

[ocdengineer]

Try the Kava and some sort of relaxation technique.  It doesn't have to be meditation, but something to slow you down.  You can teach yourself to relax as well.  Don't forget that.  Anyway, Kava is a relatively safe way to alleviate some small anxiety symptoms.

This is what this site is about, so stick around and feel free to share your story with others.

Take care,
OE

[N_Cognito]

Hello...

Before jumping to the conclusion that you have an axis I disorder, do you have any other intrusive thoughts, besides this specific intrusive thought, which is triggered by feelings of intimidation and/or wanting to impress someone?  I'm no doctor either, but I don't think that what you are describing is strange or out of the ordinary.  It sounds like the experience you had a long time ago left you with a real sense of loss and powerlessness and reinforced some very strong emotions regarding specific unwanted thoughts you had with a boy you liked a long time ago.  It sounds like you had a lot of self-sabotaging thoughts at the time that were interfering with your intentions (i.e., wanting to impress him).  It makes sense that these emotions and thoughts come back to you when you have similar interactions (i.e., a) meeting someone who intimidates you and b) want to impress).  You are trying to control what had controlled you and that too makes sense.  Feeling like you did not try hard enough or did not do enough is also an uncomfortable thought.  What I wonder is, if you were doing your best under the circumstances (i.e., stress, etc) and that believing you were not doing enough has made you want to face this further and try to conquer it.  I won't speak for you, since I don't know you, but for me being in control is an illusion that I struggle with as much as much as anyone who has experienced OCD or much like what your are describing.  The more I think I am in control, the more I think I should be doing something about it, to make it better, to make it go away.  But the more I believe I am not in control and that there are circumstances beyond me that are at play, the less stressed I feel, the less responsibility I feel to fix it, and the more I can let go of what irked me in the first place.  You may have OCD like symptoms, but if these are not interfering with your life to the point that you cannot work and/or can still enjoy life most of the time, then I would not necessarily seek out medication and/or a psychiatrist.  Reading psychoeducational material as recommended by OCDengineer can be helpful in a self-help sort of way.  Sometimes for me though, reading is not enough, since the words on the page don't ever change and sometimes I need a little more human contact and unpredictability.  I know the "c" word is frightening to people, but having a masters degree in counseling myself and seeing what the power of feeling validated by someone who can take the time to really listen to me to the point I feel heard and understood, it is powerful beyond books.  The hard part is finding the right therapist.  Anyway, I want to thank you for sharing your story.  Whether or not you feel stronger for sharing it, you appear stronger for sharing it.  What society deems as shaming is part of its own demise.  Until we as a society get over the stigma of mental health and how we think we should be in control of our own minds, we will struggle and alienate those that struggle.  The truth is that many out their have struggled, it is just that some of us our most honest about it and accepting of it.  As a recovering pure O person myself and a mental health professional, I still struggle with not overlooking the person inside the shell of diagnoses and symptoms that I read about.  My goal is often to try to reach people at their core and not get caught up in what I think I know about them, whether or not I do, is entirely another story.  Good luck and take care.

- NC

[laura124]

Hello visitor--
You sound somewhat like me--I often can't think of the perfect words during a specific situation--and then I can't stop thinking of what I should have said--over and over and over.  I don't rehearse the scenario out loud but I do talk to myself sometimes (thinking out loud).  I don't think that's a big deal at all.  So what if you may have OCD--unless it is interfering with important aspects of your life such as your job, relationships, etc.  If your anxiety is really causing panic or keeping you up at night ask your doctor about Ativan or Klonophin- they help when your mind is really wound up.

People with a type of social anxiety are always worried about what people think of them and how they are perceived by others.  I used to be worried about everybody liking me, being in the right social circle, getting the perfect boyfriend, etc.  But now I'm just myself and I try to be a good person and if people don't like me-too bad!  I just try to slow myself down and calm down when I'm talking to others so I don't end up with my foot in my mouth.  And then I don't have to think about what I should or should not have said!

[visitor]

Hi,
thanks for your input.
I can understand your warning against self diagnosing and jumping to conclusions. When I typed out a description of my behavior, I myself was surprised at how relate-able it sounded.  I know that to some extent everybody does what I've described sometimes, but the thing is, the way I do it is not like any other person I know.

I have been thinking about how to describe the behavior itself. I was even conjuring it a little last night so that I could observe it and describe it better. You know that feeling you get when you are doing something dangerous yet exciting? To me these conversations with objects of my affections are like that. When I reconfigure the conversation it is also like I am re channeling the emotion from the encounter. I always say great things and it creates like a high-kind of. So the problem is that I keep pressing into it and I get stuck with the exact same word, conversations, emotional sensation and it can last for hours. Meanwhile I am detached from my immediate reality. It the end it doesn't feel good. It is mind numbing and it doesn't get me anywhere. It also scares me because I become detached from reality. In reality I'm doing dishes, but in my mind I'm peaking with the experience of  recreating an impression from a conversation that may have possibly happened years ago.

These days it has shifting a little. Since I have read the advice to not give in to the behavior. I would say that I'm much better. However I think my social anxiety (if I have a touch of that) has gotten worse lately and it seems like I get triggered more often. I don't spend as much time performing the behavior, however I will do it for seconds often. Almost as if it is a tic. One reason why it is a problem is because I don't want people to think I'm crazy because walking around talking to myself isn't going to reflect to well on a person. It happens when I get triggered with the stress and anxiety that comes from social interactions. My conversation compulsion is the roof of where my anxiety takes me and I am hitting up against it much to often.

I've been looking at different forums for somebody who has a similar version of my problem behavior and I haven't found it. In some ways it seems like it is harder to stop then an action compulsion (like washing) because I can slip into it so easily since it is mental thoughts and not a physical action and the line of whether or not I'm doing it is more gray. I'm confused, is it an obsession or a compulsion. I guess it is a compulsion involving mental thoughts.

NC- I never suffered from other o type of intrusive thoughts to answer your question. I don't think I have that problem.
When I was little I would sometimes think if I don't do something someone is going to die-but I figure that is somewhat typical childlike thought-for example step on a crack break your mothers back- just primitive superstition and it was fleeting and never a problem for me. And presently at night I always worry that somebody is going to die in a car accident because of an errand I sent them on. But again it is not really a huge problem, just night time anxiety,it doesn't concern me to much.

[N_Cognito]

Hi again,

It sounds like you are experiencing significant symptoms associated with social anxiety disorder.  Some of the main components of this disorder include an ongoing fear of one or more social situations and/or fear of acting in a way that would be perceived by others as embarrassing and 2) exposure to the specific feared social situation (i.e., being around others who intimidate you), which triggers the anxiety and can sometimes lead to panic attacks.  Panic attacks are very uncomfortable and disorienting.  I ended up going to an urgent care thinking I was having heart complications.  They of course told me it was anxiety and asked about my job and personal life... trying to determine what stress I was going through.  Panic attacks cause a tightness in the chest area, racing heart beat, feeling as if you are losing your mind or are going to die.  If you have had a panic attack, you will know what I am talking about.  It sucks bad and in case you are wondering, yes I was somewhat embarrassed that as a clinician I couldn't figure out I was having a panic attack, when I went to the urgent care, but a little dose of humility doesn't hurt.  Anyway, before I side track any further, it does not sound like pure O, which is more characterized by ongoing intrusive thoughts that jump from one topic to another like wildfire (i.e., Intrusive thought: I thought about hurting someone with a knife, which leads to I like hurting people, which leads to I'm a murderer.)  Of course the pure O individual is no murderer, but suffers nonetheless with thinking he/she is because if you had the thought happen, then it must be true right?  Well for the pure O individual, making this distinction can be extremely difficult.  I don't think you are having a case of bombarding intrusive thoughts, but rather intense social anxiety that is triggered by particular social situations as you have described.  What might help is leaving the social situation if you begin to feel warning signs of social anxiety (i.e., sweaty forehead/palms, red hot cheeks, feeling flush in the face, feeling your face tremor, etc).  These social anxiety symptoms can be very uncomfortable and can make you feel like you are not in control, just like OCD.  Part of what might help is giving yourself permission to leave the situation when these symptoms start to come on, so they do not interrupt with whatever you are doing.  Explaining to someone, I will be right back I have to take a bathroom break, can give you the out you need to keep the pressure and associated symptoms from building and give you an immediate feeling of relief (i.e., "I'm not trapped and I don't have to do this right now").  Giving yourself the space you need can help reduce the immediate anxiety.  Also, what you said about trying not to get into the habit of critiquing what you should have said or should say.  The problem is, like OCD, when you tell yourself not to do something, you will find yourself doing it.  If you find yourself still doing it, then you need more space, so the anxiety will not be reinforced.  You don't want to even acknowledge what's going on as credible.  The less meaning you give to it, the less it will cause a reaction.  This might sound silly, but you could even practice saying embarrassing things on purpose with people you feel comfortable doing this with.  This might help loosen the incredible pressure you must be feeling over how you should or should not say something.  The more you can get away from this and challenge this, the more freed up you should feel.  Other suggestions to consider are activities that really distract you and take up your full attention.  For me, it is playing video games.  Take care.

- NC

[Xalatimo]

It's possible for someone with OCD to obsess about things such as social situations, health-related issues, etc.  I know someone who had the same obsession for four years -- having HIV, a health-related obsession -- so the lines are sometimes blurred.  It's also possible for someone with social anxiety disorder to have tendencies of OCD.  Basically, anxiety disorders overlap.  It's hard to say what you have for certain but to me it sounds like it could be either OCD, pure obsessional OCD (Pure O), social anxiety disorder, or a combination.  Repeating a conversation over and over could be considered a compulsion related to OCD but it all depends on your thought patterns.  The important thing, however, is treating it. 

When something like this makes you anxious, you could just take a step back and tell yourself, "Who cares?  I can have one bad conversation but I can make it up with a later one."  I think if you're too fearful and you always want a perfect conversation, you are setting up yourself for failure and you will just continue to experience anxiety.  Some people with panic disorder feel relief by asking for more.  Instead of fearing the panic attack, they will try to bring it on themselves, even have a huge attack.  When you do this, the fear involved is reduced and most likely you won't panic -- or at least you'll do less of it.  I think you can apply the same thing with your case.  Tell yourself, "You know what, I want to have the most embarrassing conversation ever.  I want it so ridiculous that I end up getting locked up for it."  Doesn't have to be true.  But you keep telling yourself that, one day you will realize that you are placing way too much attention on this and it's not as important as you think.  Besides, the person you are talking to might want to impress you too.  Focus on what they might be thinking and take the pressure off yourself.  Good luck.

[visitor]

Hi,
Thanks for your good advice.
I found this today on the ADAA site: It's a mention of a conversations issue listed under mental rituals of compulsions. This is the first I've stumbled upon it.

http://www.adaa.org/GettingHelp/AnxietyDisorders/OCD.asp

Compulsions — ritualistic behaviors and routines to ease anxiety or distress

# Cleaning — Repeatedly washing one’s hands, bathing, or cleaning household items, often for hours at a time.
# Checking — Checking and re-checking several to hundreds of times a day that the doors are locked, the stove is turned off, the hairdryer is unplugged, etc.
# Repeating — Inability to stop repeating a name, phrase, or simple activity (such as going through a doorway over and over).
# Hoarding — Difficulty throwing away useless items such as old newspapers or magazines, bottle caps, or rubber bands.
# Touching and arrangin
# Mental rituals — Endless reviewing of conversations, counting; repetitively calling up “good” thoughts to neutralize “bad” thoughts or obsessions; or excessive praying and using special words or phrases to neutralize obsessions.

[N_Cognito]

Apologies... I said I would try not going into diagnoses, and what do you know, I did and now you know why I don't like diagnoses.  Point being, it sounds like you are unique... as are the rest of us with OCD/Social Anxiety Disorder/Panic Disorder... etc. etc. etc.  I think you heard me say, I had some panic attacks... not everyone with OCD gets panic attacks, but I do... does that mean I don't have OCD... no, I have traits of both.  Sounds like you have traits of both OCD and social anxiety... It also sounds like you do not fit the classic example of OCD, much like what I associate with Pure O, which is strictly intrusive thoughts without the overt compulsions, (i.e., silent thoughts in your head rather than reliving conversations and saying them out loud).  I can see why that would be embarrassing and it does sound like a compulsion, especially if you are saying it over and over again to make you feel better, to the point that you feel stuck doing it when you really don't want to.  If that's what it feels like, then it is OCD related.  Like Xaltimo said, symptoms of diagnoses can overlap and it is one of the reasons I don't really like axis I diagnoses.  They confuse me and make me want to try and paint a picture of what I think someone is saying, when really it can just blur the lines.  I think diagnoses can be overly black and white and can oversimplify people's individual experiences and having worked in mental health, change the perception of their self-identity.  What I think is more important is that you are aware of your own individual experience and how it is effecting you.  The more important question for yourself is, how often is this happening for you and how much of it is interfering with your life.  If the behavior of saying conversations out loud over and over again is occurring to the point that you are not able to participate or enjoy what is going on around you, then options to consider would be seeking professional supports, like a behavioral therapist doing in vivo exposure to reduce the urge to repeat conversations in your head.  If there is some emotional attachement, in other words, actual desire for the individual you were trying to impress and also what we call in the field, unfinished business, in other words you still have feelings for the individual regardless of the ritual need to play back conversations in your head, then another option to consider is interpersonal therapy to work on identifying the unresolved emotion and conflict.  If there is no emotional conflict and you are over it, then forget about it... I would say at that point it is strictly OCD related.  Other option to consider is medication.   Again, I hope you can find what will work best for you and thank you for the taking the time to clarify.  I know what it is like to not feel validated for something that is going on and I didn't want you to think I didn't agree with you.  Take care and good luck!  Last comment on this topic I promise... but hey... this is the OCD forum... maybe I should respond just one more time... lol...

[visitor]

Wait..why are you apologizing?..Did you think I was being sarcastic when I said thanks for the good advise?
I wasn't at all..I was being sincere.

I was responding to Xalatimo. I was thinking about his point about how it really depends on the thought patterns involved. I thought that was a good point because it is hard to explain a thought pattern, but when I think about the pattern it is very abnormal. The thought itself is not abnormal, but the pattern is. Also I liked his point about how the lines of "disorders" are blurred and how there is a spectrum etc.

Anyways, I appreciate you having taken the time to respond at all.
I understand your point about the conflict between feeling validated by a label vs having a label negatively affect your self identity.
I had been thinking about that tonight actually.

Before this point I was kind of compartmentalizing my understanding of what was happening. The fact that I never talked about it made it feel even less real. In fact I was even afraid to sit down and really examine this before because it made it more real. When i first posted here my heart was pounding and i was nervous and I wanted to instantly erase anything I'd ever written, and now already I'm more comfortable with it.  But then I was thinking about how in a way there were some advantages to not clearly understanding and labeling.  When I was in denial I didn't absorbed this into part of my identity.  If I'm in denial I'm not reconciling this fact with who I am.

-Also I after I reread my post I could see I may have sounded like yeah I read something in my abnormal psychology class and now I think I have an Axis 1 disorder. And these days everybody is always throwing around the term OCD.  So I can see how I may have sounded that like that.

But in fact it has been 10 years since these symptoms started. I never had given you a time line but I've been sitting with this for a long..long.. time. I was always maybe had social anxiety but I really feel like when I was 18 something broke inside and I developed these OCD symptoms. That boy..I see him around, he has a kid now..I was in love with him when i was 18. Held on to that for 3 years and then dated him when I was 21. He still tries to phone me from time to time but I can't get involved for obvious reasons. Those reasons being that he literally drove me crazy. So the conversations involving him stopped some time ago. At one point the focus was my boyfriend's mom. She is very disapproving of me (because neither my boyfriend nor myself share her strict religious beliefs) so that is a huge trigger for me. I feel like I'm being judged negatively even when I'm not and when I really am being judged harshly that is very, very bad for me.

Anyway..I'm getting into rambling territory now..but yeah..obviously I like to talk..so.don't hesitant to share whatever your thoughts are.

[N_Cognito]

Hello Visitor,

I believe the last words I said was that that was going to be my last post, but being true to the OCD forum... I gotta keep it going right.     Well, I can say that if you have spent the last ten years with the ritual of replaying conversations out loud, it must be relieving to even talk about it and address it.  I hope that reading over the various responses has helped.  It does sounds like there is some unfinished business in your life as well and that there is some overlap there too (i.e., intrusive thoughts relating to themes of unresolved conflict in your life).  The point is that everyone has unresolved conflicts/stress, but in individuals with OCD, it can trigger a barrage of intrusive thoughts/increased symptoms relating to real life themes.  When you say you cannot talk to the boy you had loved that now has a kid for obvious reasons, I assume, since I am little oblivious, that you mean there is some tension there and unresolved stuff.  There may be words that you have wanted to express to him that you never did or never took the time to.  Or you still have feelings for him that won't go away if you even attempt to interact with this individual, or so that is what your thoughts are on the matter.  If that is what you mean, than those would be obvious reasons for you to want to avoid this individual.  But, just like in trying to avoid an intrusive thought, you are reinforcing the very emotions you are trying to avoid with the individual in your past and not really letting go, but in a sense holding on.  It also sounds like, specific situations where you feel you are being judged, regardless of whether or not you are, triggers within you a need to replay conversations and tell yourself how you should or shouldn't have said something (i.e., feeling not in control) and in OCD if you try to avoid this, it's like a boomerang it comes right back at you full force and makes you do it again and again (a vicious cycle). Rather than avoid, you may have to accept certain realities in order not to feel a need to to fix it (compulsion).  Who is to say that if you actually took the time to talk to the boy in your past that it would result badly.  If you really had no desire whatsoever to have a conversation with him, than why would you feel a need to avoid him.  That is what we mean in the field as "unfinished business" and it is more time than I or anyone could give you on a forum to resolve and address, but I hope it sheds some light on what could be going on.  By the way, this does not mean that you have feelings for him still/love him, what it means is that there is something unresolved between you two that brings tension and avoiding it is a way of reinforcing that tension.  The same could be said about your boyfriend's mother.  There is some unresolved tension there and I imagine words that were very painful to you, said by his mother, have been latched onto in your mind and not addressed.  If you say she is judgmental at times, then chances are, your right.  It's not all in your head and your OCD is not playing tricks on you.   In other words, don't think you are making it up, if you are really feeling hurt.  Regardless if it is real or not, you're still hurt right?  That's what's important, not whether or not you can fix it.  It sounds like you could benefit from learning ways to discuss your feelings with others so that you can address with the important people in your life, the tension that you are left with in certain interactions.  It can make future interactions with those people less stressful and/or anxiety provoking.  Take care.

- NC

[visitor]

Hmmm. I wish this forum would allow edits after posting.

Talking openly about these things feels so purifying that I think I may have gotten carried away. Normally I don't divulge a lot at all.

If there is anyone out there reading this who has never talked openly about their issues. I would really recommend it. It's great. You could email me privately if you want. It seems like such a cliche that talking about things is helpful but it's really true.

Anyways,
Thanks everybody..
Even if you haven't posted..just for listening..

[visitor]

Hi,
I meant that I can't talk to him because he threatens my mental sanity. I don't even want him. I kind of do but I'm aware that it's not real that it's just my mind set carried over from when we were 18. Apparently he left quit a impression on me, which is like tattooed in my head. When we actually dated at age 21 I was disappointed to find who he really is. It cured me somewhat of the obsession. But I idealized him and obsessed over him for 4 years so it's something I can easily slip back into. At that time I was always thinking of him, always having make believe conversations with him, at the verge of calling him at any moment. I'm scared, what if I'm still thinking of him at age 60 and it's so far in the past and I'm so disconnected to reality. I think I'm addicted to the feeling. Those overpowering emotions that overwhelmed my sensitive circuitry. I can't manage it, but I conjure the feelings, and then attempt to direct the flow.

It makes me sad because even thinking that I'm over him, it's still kind of a sham. I'm still maybe not far from falling back into thinking about him. My whole life just struggling to not go there mentally

He treated our friendship with reverie but our male/female relationship was not elevated to that level at all. He's definitely not perfect. He's own best friend told me that he thinks the way he treats women is almost cruel. He's no abuser or anything.. just mind games. My friends all hated him. Everybody who loves me knew instinctually how bad he was for me. Yet he's complex and he is a loyal friend and he's not bad. He's still my friend, I know, and we probably will become close sometime in the future. If I wasn't insane over him we would be close friends because we were always friends first.

The pain of us being together was helpful in helping me get over it. Overtime I forget. Maybe I need another dose of it to help me remember. That would be one advantage to having him in my life. See..that thinking is so dysfunctional.

[sabrina101]

Hi Anne

thanks for replying to my other post, can I ever relate to you. 

I fear dating because I get so obsessed and replay conversations and things over and over to the point where I feel like I am going to go out of my mind. I did that with the last guy I dated, it was awful. The only way I got over it was to cut him totally out of my life and then I developed another obsession. Now I dont think about him anymore but it was hell to cut him out when you think about them all the time. I thought it meant I was madly in love with them, but now I know better, it isnt that, its an obsessional problem.  I wish I understood what causes it and if it is OCD, I kind of feel like it must be because the amount of time reflecting on it seems so unnatural. I dont know other people that do this. Unfortunately for me the only way to end one obsesion seems to be to develop another, I am trying to live with the thoughts of repeated conversations in my head and tell myself just to let it go through me, but I find it extremely challenging to do this and not try to analyze and figure out what it is from or why. I can relate to the comments about social anxiety, I thought maybe it was because of that, I am a little shy when it comes to dating, I thought that was why I obsessed about people but I have now expanded it to other things. I havent really got any explanation for you, except to say I am sorry, I know how frustrating it is to want that person out of your head and you cant get them out.  THe only thing I have noticed lately is that when I am around other people that I feel really comfortable with that I enjoy, the thoughts are a little less intense. I dont know if that would be the same for you or not. I am just trying to keep busy, hoping this will go away . 

I hope you figure it out.

[N_Cognito]

Hey visitor,

Sounds like what you are describing is completely intrusive and horribly confusing for you.  If you think you like him it must be true right?  Is that sort of intrusive thought.  You know intellectually you have no attachement to him, but as soon as you start having fearful thoughts that you like him/love him, you start to obsess?  Well, I admit it's taken me awhile to understand this, but your last reply really made sense.  You sound like you start feeling stuck thinking thoughts you don't want to think about if you are around him... that by definition is intrusive in the sense that 1) you are not asking for it and 2) you do not want it, but the more you do not want it, the more you think that maybe you do?  Vicious cycle of thinking about things you don't want to think about.  I'm also curious as to whether your interactions with him are really to do with him and not what you are thinking about him (i.e, intrusive thought)?  Does that make sense?  That has to be confusing and frustrating.  Feels almost like your interactions with him are more in your head than a reflection of a genuine interaction.  Not sure counseling would be beneficial, but it does sound like you are still trying to avoid in a sense and again avoiding reinforces the value of the intrusive thoughts.  When I say that there is tension there, it does not mean you have feelings, but instead you have false feelings, and your false feelings are being reinforced when you respond to them.  The more you react (compulsion) to the intrusive thought (false feeling), the more powerful it becomes.  It makes sense that having nothing to do with him helps alleviate the feeling, but I can tell you avoiding does not help either.  I don't mean to say you should spend time with him... that's not what I am saying at all.  I'm saying the act of avoiding validates the false feeling.  What is there to avoid or respond to at all?  Does that make sense.  If the feeling is false than there is no reaction necessary avoid/befriend/whatever.... it's all BS.  Your thoughts are lying to you and not reflective of the actual interactions you are having with this individual.  Hopefully, I have finally started to understand what you have been trying to say.  Please let me know if I have not.  Thanks again for sharing your story and feel free to e-mail me if you would rather discuss this further in a non-forum setting.  Take care. 

-NC