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Offline CAN 93

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bad or intrusive thoughts
« on: July 30, 2008, 07:53:57 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm Chase, and I have anxiety / OCD. I've gone through therapy, and I'm on meds currently. And its made a drastic improvement- probably 65-70%. But I still struggle with intrusive thoughts. My biggest bad thought is what if i were to kill my family. Now, I know realistically that I would NEVER do that, and i know i would NEVER want to do something like that, but when I start obsessing about it, I feel scared, and the what if starts coming in. Since I know I would never something like kill my family, I just wish that the thought would go away, but it won't. Does anyone have any comments, thoughts, suggestions about my intrusive thoughts problem? is this normal? just because i have these thoughts does it mean i would do it?
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 10:22:27 PM »
That sounds like my most recent issue.  I started thinking these "what if I hurt my family" thoughts the past week.  It usually only happens after I got majorly depressed... it puts my mind in that pattern.  It's like it opens my mind to those thoughts wheras if I am happy then they don't enter often.

And same as you I know I would never do that and I have no reason to hurt anybody at all!  But I freak when this happens.  I don't know what to suggest.  Everyone usually says just ignore them and they go away eventually.
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Offline Xalatimo

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 10:46:42 PM »
No, you won't act on them.  What's going on is this:  You have anxiety.  The intrusive thoughts cause anxiety and fear.  The bother you and you want them gone desperately.  But the more you try to eliminate them, the longer they end up using your mind as their habitat.  They stay for much longer.  The solution is to just realize that it's your anxiety playing tricks on you.  The fear that you will act out on them -- again, anxiety.  So replace those thoughts with, "It's my OCD making me think this."  Instead of fighting the thoughts, analyzing them, trying to get rid of them, and so on and so forth, you have to neutralize them.  Make them meaningless.  And that's what they are --  nothing but random thoughts created by your anxiety.  

If you fear panic attacks, most likely you'll continue to have them.  If you fear intrusive thoughts, most likely you'll continue to have them.  Same thing.  So stop placing so much value on these intrusive thoughts and see them for what they are, just meaningless thoughts your anxiety came up with in order to bug you.  It's a jab.  You want to fight back?  Ignore it.  Be more like Gandhi and less like Tyson.  That's how you beat OCD.  Just accept them and let them sit in your mind while you realize that it's JUST anxiety.  Convert the fear to something like this, "It's anxiety making me fearful.  If I didn't have OCD I wouldn't be fearful."  And it's true.  People without OCD get the same intrusive thoughts, but it doesn't bother them.  So the thoughts go away on their own.  When you have OCD, you hold on to them and start feeling fearful, guilty, etc.  That's the opposite of what should be happening.  It proves you're a good person that you're obsessing about this.  Bottom line -- you wouldn't be ruminating about it if you didn't care.
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 03:59:30 AM »
While I agree you won't act on them, still... I bet the people who did go shoot up schools were told "it's just a harmless thought" also.  I mean if everyone who ever has a bad thought is told it's definitely meaningless then there would never be crazy murderers.

(once again YOU WILL NOT act on it.  But some people obviously do.  lol)
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Offline MistaVega

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 04:48:11 AM »
No, you won't act on them.  What's going on is this:  You have anxiety.  The intrusive thoughts cause anxiety and fear.  The bother you and you want them gone desperately.  But the more you try to eliminate them, the longer they end up using your mind as their habitat.  They stay for much longer.  The solution is to just realize that it's your anxiety playing tricks on you.  The fear that you will act out on them -- again, anxiety.  So replace those thoughts with, "It's my OCD making me think this."  Instead of fighting the thoughts, analyzing them, trying to get rid of them, and so on and so forth, you have to neutralize them.  Make them meaningless.  And that's what they are --  nothing but random thoughts created by your anxiety.  

If you fear panic attacks, most likely you'll continue to have them.  If you fear intrusive thoughts, most likely you'll continue to have them.  Same thing.  So stop placing so much value on these intrusive thoughts and see them for what they are, just meaningless thoughts your anxiety came up with in order to bug you.  It's a jab.  You want to fight back?  Ignore it.  Be more like Gandhi and less like Tyson.  That's how you beat OCD.  Just accept them and let them sit in your mind while you realize that it's JUST anxiety.  Convert the fear to something like this, "It's anxiety making me fearful.  If I didn't have OCD I wouldn't be fearful."  And it's true.  People without OCD get the same intrusive thoughts, but it doesn't bother them.  So the thoughts go away on their own.  When you have OCD, you hold on to them and start feeling fearful, guilty, etc.  That's the opposite of what should be happening.  It proves you're a good person that you're obsessing about this.  Bottom line -- you wouldn't be ruminating about it if you didn't care.

Listen to this man, he knows exactly what he's talking about. Take these words to heart, don't just read it break it down and put it in perspective, he is entirely right.
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Offline Xalatimo

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 06:04:13 AM »
Well, to someone without OCD the thoughts might not be meaningless.  This applies only to OCD.  The kids who shoot up schools probably don't A)Go around telling people about it, and B)Get upset by it the same way people with OCD do.  Intrusive thoughts have a certain pattern when it comes to OCD.  You get an intrusive thought.  You feel anxious, fearful and guilty.  You try to eliminate the thought.  The thought sticks.  It turns into an obsession.  This is not the same thought pattern as someone who decides to shoot up a school.  Most likely, the kids who shoot up schools aren't ruminating about whether or not they would actually do the crime or not for the same reasons people with OCD do.  It's not so much fear that they might lose control and actually do it, like in OCD.  It's probably more of contemplating whether or not they want to go through with it or not due to fear of getting caught, locked up, etc.  CAN 93, you have OCD.  You're not acting on these thoughts, guaranteed.  You're good.
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Offline ocdengineer

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 04:56:10 PM »
This difference between kids who shoot up schools and people with OCD is that people with OCD don't want to shoot up schools.  Simple as that.  Most people who murderers and what not are sociopaths.  They typically don't care about human life and want or enjoy the idea of hurting others.  You are on an anxiety forum which means you are having anxiety about these intrusive thoughts.  This is proof that you are not a sociopath and just have a neurosis. 

Xalatimo is dead on with how to rid yourself of the thoughts.  You need to learn to acknowledge the thoughts as nonsense and let them go with no emotional attachment.  This doesn't mean you liked the thought, you just don't care to waste valuable life time on worrying about thoughts that have no basis in reality. 

I am moving this to OCD.  This is probably a case of Pure O.  I'd search the sight for "Pure O".  You will find a lot of information that will help out a lot.

Take care,
OE
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 05:17:04 PM »
I guess.

I am just worried whether the thoughts can just keep festering there and then make someone crazy and suddenly they do think they should do it.  The mind can be really messed up if it is overused too much.  I feel like I so abdly need my mind to stop thiknking as much ro it's going to overload.
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Offline Xalatimo

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 07:44:04 PM »
The only way I could see that happening is if someone with OCD wanted to test out their thoughts.  But it would be a choice.  "Can I really kill?  Let's find out."  You thinking you might go crazy and act out on the thoughts is actually just another intrusive thought, again created by anxiety.  Of course, if someone does go crazy and act out on the thoughts, chances are there is more going on than anxiety.
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 01:20:42 AM »
Maybe.  I don't know that there is really any conclusive evidence though because I'm sure they rarely find out if these people started out only having anxiety or not.  Something has to make those people do what they do.  And a lot of times they'll say the person kept to themselves, were on antidepressants (yes people just ignore that and keep pushing those meds though) etc...

Not trying to scare anyone at all.  Just stating why they bother me when I think those thigns.  I am having almost 0% of them now though because I got through that crap again and feel awesome.  It's pretty obvious that I only get them when I am depressed.  It allows more crap into the mind.
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I heard a little girl
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To give your love no matter what
Is what she said
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Offline Xalatimo

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 04:45:52 AM »
I see your point.  But it seems like it's all speculation fueled by anxiety.  And if you're going to worry about turning into a murderer, why not also worry about turning into a schizophrenic, getting Alzheimer's one day, robbing a bank, and so on?  That's the problem with anxiety.  Don't worry about the future worry about the present.  There is a saying that if you worry that you're crazy or that you're about to go crazy, you aren't crazy and probably won't be.  I think the same thing applies to turning into a murderer as well.  People with OCD who are bothered by violent, intrusive thoughts would have trouble killing a fly, let alone another human being. 

Think of OCD as a giant octopus with many arms.  You chop off one arm and the octopus tries to come at you with another one.  That's how OCD works.  Once you eliminate one thought, OCD will come right back with another thought.  The main thing to do is get the problem at the source and realize that all intrusive thoughts are just anxiety.  Don't analyze them.  At any rate, you seem to being do that since your intrusive thoughts are disappearing.  If you ever get depressed again, just keep in mind that for you, depression seems to lead to intrusive thoughts.
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2008, 03:11:27 PM »
Well i pretty much agree.  FAor instance the one thing I would NOT want to do is physically hurt people.  So it makes no sense to think I would.  But that just makes it more frightening that thoughts even get there at all I guess.

It's weird though how easily those things are allowed in when you're already depressed and how believable/scary they get in those cases.

By the way I sleep horribly and have these things go on in my sleep too.  I usually feel GREAT when going to bed, then have a horrible sleep and wake up feeling bad and woprrying all over again.  So something eneds to be done where I don't have all this crap go on in my sleep and then I bet I would feel much better.  Because I doubt it is a coincidence that ALL the time it gets worse by the time I wake up.
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I heard a little girl
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My Friends - Red Hot Chili Peppers

Offline Durrells Roadrunner

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2008, 05:52:25 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm Chase, and I have anxiety / OCD. I've gone through therapy, and I'm on meds currently. And its made a drastic improvement- probably 65-70%. But I still struggle with intrusive thoughts. My biggest bad thought is what if i were to kill my family. Now, I know realistically that I would NEVER do that, and i know i would NEVER want to do something like that, but when I start obsessing about it, I feel scared, and the what if starts coming in. Since I know I would never something like kill my family, I just wish that the thought would go away, but it won't. Does anyone have any comments, thoughts, suggestions about my intrusive thoughts problem? is this normal? just because i have these thoughts does it mean i would do it?


oh my, you could be me speaking you dont know how comforted i feel to find this site tonight. i feel the same i imagine terrible things i might do to my children and i would so NEVER EVER EVER EVER do this i just get all freaked out as it pops in to my head and i cant stop it. - im even scared writing it as i feel people may think im some maniac who really wants to kill my kids but it simply isnt true.
yes its awful no you wouldnt do it and yes its normal for you and me BECAUSE its one of the problems of haivng ocd - these intrusive and compulsive thoughts -  and this is a real problem and thats why we need help for it not cause we would do it as we wouldnt but because we need help to not think of these. i have started therapy and i have high hopes
much love to you x
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Offline CAN 93

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2008, 02:44:29 PM »
oh my, you could be me speaking you dont know how comforted i feel to find this site tonight. i feel the same i imagine terrible things i might do to my children and i would so NEVER EVER EVER EVER do this i just get all freaked out as it pops in to my head and i cant stop it. - im even scared writing it as i feel people may think im some maniac who really wants to kill my kids but it simply isnt true.
yes its awful no you wouldnt do it and yes its normal for you and me BECAUSE its one of the problems of haivng ocd - these intrusive and compulsive thoughts -  and this is a real problem and thats why we need help for it not cause we would do it as we wouldnt but because we need help to not think of these. i have started therapy and i have high hopes
much love to you x


no you're definitely not alone! yeah its just exactly how i feel- i would never ever do anything bad like that, but it sucks because the thoughts keep manifesting. This forum has been so helpful to me ; and i recommend along with your therapy to once in a while read more forums about people with intrusive thoughts- it helps so much!

good luck, and know that you are OK!
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Offline ocdengineer

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Re: bad or intrusive thoughts
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2008, 02:55:13 PM »
Just to pipe in a little advice.  I never found a medication that made the thoughts go away.  I found medication that made me less anxious even when having negative thoughts, but none that actually made them go away.  In order to alter your thoughts you have to create a habit of disregarding the negative ones.  The more you do it the easier it will become.  It takes time and bravery, but ultimately it is priceless.

Take care,
OE
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