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Author Topic: Natural supplements  (Read 807 times)

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Offline insights

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 11:21:47 PM »
Since you didn't read the last study I posted I will summarize a few abstracts. Still waiting on your sources which discredit niacinamide.

My problem is that there aren't any supporting its credibility with the degree of rigour there is for the other supplements. Until you produce them, I'm not about to recommend niacinamide. I'm not into zealotry, just cold hard facts and these studies don't have enough facts. You want to shout about it from the rooftops, that's fine, but don't demand I do.

Ian

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NOTE: I'm not a doctor, and particularly not yours, so there may be factors I'm unaware of. Therefore all advice is of a general nature and you should consult your doctor before following any of it, especially before changing med doses.

Offline gouldbergvariations

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 11:24:23 PM »
Really, increasing serotonin increases anxiety?

Increased blood serotonin concentrations are correlated with reduced tension/anxiety in healthy postpartum lactating women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23541877

Associations between whole-blood serotonin and subjective mood in healthy male volunteers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15927346/


Reduced anxiety-related behaviour in transgenic mice overexpressing serotonin 1A receptors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15469887

The role of cortical serotonin in anxiety and locomotor activity in Wistar rat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19331468

How to increase serotonin in the human brain without drug
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

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Offline gouldbergvariations

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 11:30:41 PM »
Since you didn't read the last study I posted I will summarize a few abstracts. Still waiting on your sources which discredit niacinamide.

My problem is that there aren't any supporting its credibility with the degree of rigour there is for the other supplements. Until you produce them, I'm not about to recommend niacinamide. I'm not into zealotry, just cold hard facts and these studies don't have enough facts. You want to shout about it from the rooftops, that's fine, but don't demand I do.

Ian

The problem is you have provided no sources, or references which disagree with niacinamide's biochemical and therapeutical effects. I rely on scientific research as opposed to conjecture and opinions backed by an unqualified individual. You are not a neuroscientist , and you have not provided sources to discredit niacinamide's actions.

Case studies were linked , along with the outlined biochemical and postulated mechanism of actions. Numerous different studies/ researchers are cited .
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Offline anxious J

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2014, 08:02:25 PM »
Really, increasing serotonin increases anxiety?

Increased blood serotonin concentrations are correlated with reduced tension/anxiety in healthy postpartum lactating women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23541877

Associations between whole-blood serotonin and subjective mood in healthy male volunteers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15927346/


Reduced anxiety-related behaviour in transgenic mice overexpressing serotonin 1A receptors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15469887

The role of cortical serotonin in anxiety and locomotor activity in Wistar rat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19331468

How to increase serotonin in the human brain without drug
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

Do you take this yourself then ? And what Dosage Do u Recomand for Anxiety Control ??
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Offline johnathonm

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2014, 02:10:35 PM »
Does it surprise you there are no placebo trials, where would this non patentable funding come from, hmmm?

Fishoil and exercise aren't patentable either, yet there are lots of studies showing they work and how they work.

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Either way, nicotinamide is an endogenous ligand for GABA receptor /benzodiazepine complex which anxiolytic sedative effects are similar to a benzodiazepine.


But does it work that way in practice?  Some of the people promoting nicotinamide are also promoting another Russian idea, Picamilon (nicotinoyl-GABA), supposedly GABA in a form which crosses the blood-brain-barrier (BBB), with studies of similar quality supporting it. The only problem is that the whole rationale for it is deeply flawed. It isn't necessary and can't work as advertised.

Firstly, not only does no functioning brain lack GABA, which is a byproduct of the Krebs/citric acid cycle that fuels the brain and is so abundant that the blood-brain-barrier has billions of tiny pumps to remove the excess. The problem isn't a lack of GABA, but a lack of benzo-GABA binding sites and those that exist are less sensitive than normal. Throwing more GABA at them is akin to filling a gas tank to overflowing because the sparkplugs don't work.

Secondly, GABA analogue pharmaceuticals such a gabapentin and pregabalin which do the same thing have almost no impact on GABA, affecting the glutamate system instead. Some people do achieve worthwhile results when taking them, but most don't IME.  The odds of GABA molecules from outside a synapse having any impact on neuro transmission across that synapse is vanishingly small even if it was released by an adjacent synapse.

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If you'd like, you can go wade through the hundreds of anecdotes on numerous forums.

Just as I can find thousands of anecdotes supporting homeopathy preparations, including from the Queen of Britain who is a great believer. They prove nothing. The placebo effect sees many feeling an improvement even when taking homeopathy's distilled water and alcohol. More than enough to have a very profitable business.

Quote
Its also interesting that you promote benzodiazepine usage whilst backing a neurogenesis themed treatment. Benzodiazepines impair neurogenesis.

Yes, they do impair neurogenesis. And I do suggest benzodiazepines despite this. Because they are the lesser of two evils. I'd much rather see someone take benzodiazepines to help them cope with the heightened anxiety produced when antidepressants initially enhance serotonin activity even if it slows the onset of the therapeutic response a little than see them stop taking the med. It is an unfortunate fact of life that most of those prescribed antidepressants stop taking them before they begin to work because of the side-effects, especially the anxiety.

Secondly, while I discourage using benzodiazepines as first line daily anti anxiety meds, some people simply cannot tolerate antidepressants for a variety of reasons, and for them benzodiazepines are better than having nothing.

Then there is the third category of people who only need help with occasional anxiety. For them benzodiazepines are a better bet than taking antidepressants daily. In that role they work well and have few side-effects.

Ian

In the states there is always Lovaza... :p
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Offline insights

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2014, 04:41:55 PM »
In the states there is always Lovaza... :p

Most fish oil supplements have a better EPA-DHA ration than Lovaza and they are usually considerably cheaper.  Studies have shown that for anxiety and depression EPA (Eicosapentaenoic acid) is the important omega-3 fatty acid. For reference, Lovaza contains 465mg EPA, 375mg DHA. About 2.5 ordinary fish oil capsules would contain 465mg EPA, 310mg DHA. Some brands contain even higher ratios.

Ian
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NOTE: I'm not a doctor, and particularly not yours, so there may be factors I'm unaware of. Therefore all advice is of a general nature and you should consult your doctor before following any of it, especially before changing med doses.

Offline mothmama

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 09:23:00 PM »
I have remained on the unmedicated side of things for quite some time (I could be diagnosed as GAD) and am finding some relief with herbal supplements, a B complex and fish oil. I take a small dose of St. John's wort in the am, along with tinctures of lemon balm, California poppy and skullcap as needed. For sleep, I have a ritual of drinking a cup of chamomile tea. I know it sounds "weak" but it really works to help make me sleepy. Spirituality, yoga, music, EMDR (trauma therapy) and CBT have helped the most.
And oddly, aromatherapy does help. My therapist once gave this patch with various oils in it that were quite soothing.

 I have just read some powerfully convincing research about CBD (cannabidiol) being very effective for anxiety. It is the non-THC component of the hemp plant. It's legal in the US because it doesn't get you high. I ordered some and am waiting for it to come in the mail. If I find it effective, I will make a thread about it.
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Offline MLB2805

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 10:10:48 PM »
Thanks mothmama
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You don't have to control your thoughts. You just have to stop letting them control you.

Offline appleshampoo22

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Re: Natural supplements
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 08:52:39 PM »
All the research I've read on fish oil corroborates what Ian said. I take a fish oil formulation that has a higher ratio of EPA to DHA as EPA has been shown to have more efficacy in improving mental health and anxiety-related disorders. The formulation I take has 550 mg EPA and 215 mg DHA per capsule and I take two or three per day. My only complaint is that it's a pricey supplement, but it seems to help.
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