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Offline el28

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m.s
« on: March 02, 2013, 11:15:14 AM »
i m29 years old.8 months ago i had thyroidectomy because of hashimoto.15 days late started my nerve problems.numbless in my arms and legs,tingling,floters in my eyes.i googled those symptoms and the first thing was M.S.i went to 7 neyrologists,2 orthop.and 5 endos everyone says it s because of axienty.last week i had my first panic crise.yesterday i had a brain MRI.i was clear.i read that mayde your brain mri its clear and you have in neck.i m so tired.all those months i m living with this fear.
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 03:47:04 PM »
you've been to numerous docs and had the test for MS...

this is your anxious over thinking taking over here............  being driven by your googling...

what are you doing for your anxiety disorder?  what is working?  what isn't?  what are you willing to do to get better? 

here is my "as I see it" post.

http://www.anxietyzone.com/index.php/topic,60476.0.html
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 03:26:18 AM »
doctors didnt want to go for an mri.they are sure its anxiety but i m not.i don t know how to calm down.i m trying but i m always having the though that the problem is not in the brain but in ny neck.i have those symptoms all the time.they don t go away never.yesterday i went to a psychiatrist.i read that in all m.s patiens doctors told them at the beginning that they are ok and everything is because of anxiety.so how can i calm down?
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 07:12:21 AM »
have you read my other link?

it has suggestions and a bunch about how to calm down and how anxiety works in a body

your believing you have MS is a common fear around here.  I had that fear off/on for years. 

thing is anxiety DOES cause all kinds of problems in people.  it can take MONTHS of reduced anxiety (of people working on it) before things begin to get better).  seeing a psychiatrist is fine however they are usually just a medication source.  what is better is seeing a psychologist---they are the ones that do actual  therapy.
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 07:15:15 AM »
more information that I often post to people when they've had their thinking taken over by anxiety:

another message I sent to a member a while back may have some helpful info:

it is pretty easy to let the symptoms scare the crap out of you and easy to attribute all manner of horrors to these things.

one of your questions was: "so what, just because you feel these things at least they are not life-threatening",    I would look at like this:  if the symptom actually, physically prevents you from doing things, then you need to look at it as something a doc should check out.  IF it is something like twitching or sore muscles or muscles feel weak or fatigued but they still carry you around then, you should just say "hey this doesn't feel good but it can't stop me from doing my daily tasks or job or hobby or what have you. And say "I will not let my fear of these symptoms stop me".

As I alluded in a post earlier today about my first fall into the pit in '97, I had to do that to get myself out of it.  I had all the med tests and was seeing a therapist.  They wanted to put me on meds but I was nursing my daughter and, at the time, SSRIS were not given to nursing mothers.  I finally decided that I had two choices:  1. sit around in fear waiting for MS (that was my fear at the time) to slowly remove my life from me or 2. TAke charge of this anxiety.  So what I did was delve head first into a huge gardening project.  Turns out it helped a great deal because it REALLY took my mind off of my bodily sensations.  This allowed my mind to calm down and thereby allowed my body to relax.  It wasn't over night.  It took several weeks.  During that time I didn't monitor the symptoms that I had been having NON_STOP for months---ie twitching, face pain, arm pain, leg pain, numbness, tingling, shooting pains, jerking limbs.....   there were many more but you get the idea 

What is your thing?  IDK.  I didn't know gardening was my thing until I tried it.  Turns out I'm damn**  good at it AND it was so engrossing to me that I didn't even have time to think about my symtpoms... which, imo, is key....

I eventually got into some other things:

volunteering.  I got heavy into several things at my church... social responsiblity sorts of things---helping the sick (AIDS person), the poor, those who suffered miscarriages or other woman issues dealing with children.  I also got every envolved with our neighborhoods homeowner's association:  ie the welcome committee, social concerns committee, neighborhood socials (helped with planning parties for the 'hood) and I served on the board.

we've since moved so I'm not so involved where we live presently.  However I do volunteer with a dogrescue...

So my suggestion for things to do are:

hobbies----crafting, gardening, scrapbooking, jewelry making ( I had a douzy of a headache last week that advil didn't help----made a couple of pair of ear-rings and the tension headache went away)
volunteer work..... lots of organizations you could help out in
exercise:  I walk my dog 1 1/2 miles----to 2 miles a day.  today was rainy and I was running my kids all over so not much of a walk today... poor dog
eat right-----yeah I SUCK at this one, myself.  Although I did have a nice shrimp bisque which only had about 300 cal today...


I am not symptom-less.  When I experience anxiety/stress symptoms now, however, I don't look to disease X.  I look at what is going on in my life that is causing them.  At this point you are likely not able to find A stressor.  THis is, inpart, due to the fact that you are in the anxiety cycle of:  fear/stress/symptoms/fear.....  However once you are able to reduce your stress using a variety of tools, your mind will calm down and things will get easier and you will be able to manage this without BEASTY taking you for a ride.

you can get better though, you can.   

   


and again:

   adding to that some other posts to another member a while back:




I certainly don't have all of the answers.

however think about it-------------what causes us pain in our bodies?  I mean what controls how we feel pain?   It is our brain/nerves right?  When we fall and scrape our knee, we feel pain because our nerves send signals to the brain, the brain interprets it and says, "I'm hurt".   This a normal thing.  Our brain interprets stuff and tells the nerves to send a pain signal back to our knee and then we feel the pain.   Our brain and nerves are powerful buggers. 

Let's say there is a bear approaching.............  what happens---- we become hyper aware.  we get the fight or flight so we can survive.  We get all those lovely adrenal surges......  We have to survive.  That is all well and good.

now what happens if we have our thinking go awry?  What happens when we are stressed?  what happens if the stress isn't relieved or realized?  Our brains gets wiggy!!!!  THis causes fight/flight all of the time---sometimes at a high level and sometimes at a lower level.  but doesn't matter really cuz now we are "clicked" on the ON position.  We never are truly relaxed.  Our "fight/flight" brain is always switched on to some extent.  THis leaves a body sensitized----muscles are tight, nerves are over reactive (which causes burning/tingling/buzzing) our organs aren't running optimally (ie digestions slows or speeds up).

when these goes unchecked we get in that cycle of fear-------which came first the chicken or egg? 

bottom line our brains control our bodies.  If our brain is scared or stressed or whatever, it doesn't send out nice calm rational signals to our bodies.  Our bodies don't question the brain.  the brain is THE MASTER.....  Our bodies just react.  That is why the answer to feeling better doesn't come from treating the physical but the mental.

and why do you only have symptoms that come and go?  well some peeps have stuff all the time.  Some have them come and go and some have a combo of the two.  Guess it depends on the individual.





AND





sometimes anxiety symptoms are relieved when one is TRULY occupied.  BUT remember a body has to be relaxed for a while before a body calms down.  So one cannot expect the brain to say----oh I"m working now and I'll just forget that I'm a mess really and give up on the aches and pains."    anxiety doesn't really have an on/off switch.

Personally speaking:

back in '97 I got very involved in gardening.  I mean really involved.  It took about 2 or 3wks working up some new garden beds.  in the end I noticed most of my symptoms were either gone or diminished.  But I had an extended amount of time in which I wasn't monitoring.

I've also had times when I've been stressed and decided----Okay I'm going to get involved in something to get my symptoms to go away.  guess what?  it doesn't work then.  cuz, on some level I'm still monitoring.

a year ago I was having, what I knew were stress/anxiety related headaches.  THey were pretty bad.  Well one day I went to help out at a dog rescue.  I walked 7 or 8 dogs over a period of two hours or so.  When I arrived, I had a headache.  At the end I got in the car and drove away with the realization that the headache was gone.  Within 5 minutes it was back.  YEAH can you believe that.

Had the same sort of thing on Monday with a headache.  took my dog to her training class with a headache... left without one.  believe it or not taking my dog to obedience class relieved it.

I've even had gardening or exercise that has made me more shaky

YES I am a mixed bag of tricks like most people I imagine.


JUST like any physical malady, a mental malady needs REAL time to heal   Unlike a physical malady though, with the mental WE have to make the DECISION to heal by changing our actions/thinking/behavior and continue to work on it even when it is hard.    Personally I believe mental issues are more difficult than getting through physical issues   **although I'm getting pretty SICK of this toe thing I've had probs with since mid may.....  I'm getting tired of changing my usual routines to accomodate it***     



thing is there are no easy do 1, 2, 3 and off you go.  This takes time.  Even more than that, imo, there is no cure to anxiety but more of changing your reactions and mindset.  That doesn't mean one is miserable. It means that one must be cognizant that anxiety can, if allowed, take over during times of stress.  Then all it will do is sit back  and LIE and watch the spin.     
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 10:03:03 AM »
im not living because of the fear not because of symptoms.thank you for everything you told me.it s like listening my mum.she is saying me the same things.i m 29 years old,unemployed teacher.its to difficult to find a job(i m from Greece,so things are difficuld right now) so i quess i have to find something in order to keep my mind busy.every morning i m waking up and i m trying to see what is wrong with my body.i dont trust doctors because 2 years ago when i was saying them that i could nt breath they told me is was anxiety but it was my thyroid.they told me to have thyroidectomy because they were sure i had cancer but fortunatly it wasn t
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Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 03:35:40 AM »
i m so afraid because my symptoms didn t come all at the same time but in a period of 2 months.first tingling in my right knee.the other day in my left hand,eye floters after a week.20 days later pins in all my body in night.then tingling in my other hand.feeling li hair in my legs,nymbless in my hands when im sleeping. i m feeling like my nerves are bursting.my endo told me that those sympoms could be cause of ypothyroidism and because of my fear of m.s don t them go away
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 06:56:18 AM »
that really doesn't matter el28 on the timetable of symptoms.    really please try and learn as much as you can about anxiety.  remember anxiety lies.

and sure hypothyroidism can cause similar symptoms and IF one chooses to fixate on some other malady due to anxiety, it will make symptoms last....  since you had a thyroidectomy it is presumed you are on thyroid meds AND are having it monitored to make sure the levels are correct.

what are you doing about your anxious over thinking?  anything?
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 08:15:48 AM »
i was ypothyroid for 4 months.imagine that tsh normal level is 0,3-3 and mine was 24.now my dose is ok for me.my endo told me that its common with people with hashimoto to have emo problems.from the first time nerve problems started i ve never felt my legs and my hands like before.i have to say that i m not doing anything about anxiety .i m just taking the pills that psycologist gave me.yesterday i booked tickets to Brussels with my fiancee.from that time i have anxienty because i m afraid that something will happens to me.like i will wake up and i m not seeing because off M.S.AM i crazy or not yet???
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 08:19:34 AM »
el-

read and reread the info I gave you.  at some point we all arrive at the "I'm not going to take this crap anymore" and we start working on the faulty thinking.  this eventually gets symptoms to subside. 

I know you are just getting into all of this but whether the beginning of it or those who have been around the block a few times----------  this stuff takes time, patience and a few leaps of faith to get us on the road to recovery.


Sounds like a lovely trip to Brussels.  My hubs is in Switzerland until Friday on business not pleasure
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 08:47:08 AM »
thank you so much!!!!!!!i hope that everthing will be ok.i will read it everyday
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Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 09:04:38 AM »
today i m feeling that m.s symptoms are worst.i m sure that i have m.s .feeling my left leg to be wick and my face is warm
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 09:26:37 AM »
today i m feeling that m.s symptoms are worst.i m sure that i have m.s .feeling my left leg to be wick and my face is warm

anxiety lies..... aka---BEASTY, LIAR


you know I was SURE I had MS off/on 3X from 97-2009. THREE distinct and terrifying episodes that lasted 2-5 months of me melting down due to my listening to the LIAR.   I was wrong.  I let my anxious over thinking usurp my rationality.   

what are you going to do about your anxiety disorder? 
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 09:58:20 AM »
i went for a walk by the sea(i m lucky having sea in my city).i felt better but when i was walking my leg was wick and in pain so...i could nt do much.my knee is in pain
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 12:36:31 PM »
i went for a walk by the sea(i m lucky having sea in my city).i felt better but when i was walking my leg was wick and in pain so...i could nt do much.my knee is in pain

so that means you have MS?  What if someone else said the same to you?  what would you think?

in my original link to you it has a list of 100+ symptoms in it.  Have you had a look at that?

btw-- I took a 2.1 mile walk with my dog this morning.  I'll still likely take her out for another mile or so today.    Something I do daily so I am USED to exercise.   My left hip REALLY  hurt as does my second toe on my left foot.  For the past several weeks I have a spot on my lower right back----about the size of a quarter--- that hurts mostly when I bend over... to the point that I go "AAAH".   My left shoulder is incredibly tight and has been hurting for a couple of weeks.   Do I have a neurological disease?

you are doing what EVERY Hypo does------  looking for or noticing aches/pains and then connecting dots....  you think you come up with a very detailed picture of some disease.  In fact just about any ache/pain can be connected, in  a HA person's mind anyway, to any disease that has captured their attention.    But that detailed picture.................   it isn't a picture, it is nothing but a scribbled up mess.  Do you think if I tried I could take my symptoms above and make just a scribbly mess as you are doing?

what are you going to do about your anxiety disorder?
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 12:54:03 PM »
btw--  when I mentioned in a post on this thread that I feared MS off/on for a long while,  well here is my list.  it isn't even a complete list.

This is my "neuro" symptoms I've had.  these can last for just moments or MONTHS.   were they all anxiety?  who knows?  likely a good bit of it was normal body noise that I took notice of and started connecting dots which only made my symptoms worse and more numerous.


 *Shocking pain down thigh and left arm--due to herniated disks
*Sciatica pain--due to stress and the disks
*back pain
*hip pain
*numbing and tingling over various parts of my body--fingers/toes/hands/feet/back/legs/stomach/groin etc
*tense muscles
*cramping muscles---feet/hands/hips/shins
*Twitching/spasms---all over my body.  My right thigh sometimes twitches quite hard--the entire muscle                                       
*vibrating/buzzing limbs
*muscles feel weak/fatigued/heavy
*patches of skin or limbs that feel wet
*burning skin or chilled skin
*vision--jumpy eyes (not eyelid twitching, though I've had that), blurry vision, floaters (which have ZERO to do with MS), sore aching eyes, pain behind eye orbits
*sore aching muscles and joints--name a muscle and a joint and it's hurt me
*headaches---that just won't go with meds
*sharp/shooting/jabbing pains down my arms or legs or stomach or head
*dizziness--sometimes mild; sometimes I've been off balance.  Once it was a 'dizzy day'-I spent most in bed
*head feeling swirly
*jolting awake, trouble sleeping, waking with a panic feeling
*forgetfulness
*trouble saying words--saying the wrong word repeatedly
*face pain--primarily my right side of face--pressure
*TMJ pain
*ear pain
*trouble swallowing
*Stress incontinence--buy hey I've birthed quite a few kids
*very fatigued/tired
*trouble sleeping
*when anxious--fast movements muck with my eyes--makes me somewhat dizzy/headache--ie.  watching the page on the computer scroll down

I didn't have MS or ALS or brain tumor or parkinson's or any other neuro nasty.   I had an uncontrolled, mismanaged, squirreled out thinking The most I had were some pinched nerves due to disks in my back and bone pushing in the spinal cords.   I am still here.  sometimes I still have some of those symptoms.  But I know stress is hard on a body.  AND uncontrolled anxiety wreaks havoc on it.
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 01:28:36 PM »
i have the most of those symptoms!!!!!i did nt know that anxienty can cause symptoms that you are feeling them all the time.yesterday a saw a strange pimple in my face and my first though was that i ts cancer.now i m laughing with me.i hope that one day i will laugh with my m.s fear
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Offline vanilla1969

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Re: m.s
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 01:45:41 PM »
OMG Sixpack this quote has crossed my mind, is this why Im doing this.

"The reason I say this is because the "cover" form is, well, anxiety over health issues being used to cover up or divert our attention from what is going on in our lives.  It seems easier to deal with phantom X disease rather than financial issues or upbringing issues or parenting issues----you know whatever is going on in our lives that is messy and would be easier to sweep under the rug type stuff."

I'm not going to lie I have often thought has it would be nice to not have anymore responsiblity, I'm tired, just wanna run away cause some things seem so hard to deal with now. I am tired of the stresses and I have often thought how it would be nice to have some kind of ailment (not deadly) that would take me out of work for months. I hate my job with a passion, I don't make much money for a woman raising kids on her own and it just seems like I'm working for bills and nothing else. Don't even get to enjoy my own money for personal reasons, just bills, bills, bills. Yeah a sickness would be a good way to get a break. My psychiatrist said even though I don't like him much "You are taking your stress and turning it into physical issues".
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 01:50:36 PM »
0213 vanilla

I believe the majority of peeps that have their anxiety manifest itself with health IS from a diversion.  yes.  :yes:  Hell I wouldn't be surprised if just about any kind of anxiety--GAD and some phobias---are too.
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline MTBR

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Re: m.s
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 02:22:20 PM »
Quote
I'm not going to lie I have often thought has it would be nice to not have anymore responsiblity

Oh yeah....this is the EXACT thought I have just about every hour on the hour. I obsess about how much less responsibility I had before I got married and had a kid....and I have a smokin' hot wife and an awesome son who makes me laugh every minute of the day....so go figure.
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Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 02:32:16 PM »
my psyciatrist told me the same thing.he told me that i m not satisfy with my life.i can t deal that i m unemploy,that my family used to have money and now because of economical crice its not  the same,i cant go to live with my fiance because of money etc etc and its easier to me to believe that i have m.s in order to keep my mind there and not to my problems
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Offline vanilla1969

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Re: m.s
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 02:48:26 PM »
It still doesn't make sense to me cause going through this is not easy, don't know why we would re-route the worry to something that makes us think we are going crazy.
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Offline el28

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Re: m.s
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 03:10:52 PM »
i couldn t even believe that our mind, in order to "protect"us from something that we can not deal with make us to fear about something else.it s really strange.i prefere to concern about job,money etc that to have the m.s fear with all those symptoms
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Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 03:13:39 PM »
It still doesn't make sense to me cause going through this is not easy, don't know why we would re-route the worry to something that makes us think we are going crazy.

it is amazing how capable we are of lying to ourselves.  remember, too, changing those things that are really bothering us is hard or uncomfortable or too life changing or horridly scary.  it is easier to have a disease and let a "doctor take care of everything"  It isn't really our job to fix the cancer or disease X.  it is the doctor's.  All we had to do is follow the instructions.

and while going through this isn't easy it is a known and for want of a better term comfortable.        addressing those uncomfy truths in our lives leave us open to a lot doubts, makes us emotionally vulnerable or maybe physically vulnerable....   it comes down to the devil you know (anxiety) and the devil you don't.....      That is what the "leap of faith/s is/are all about.
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

Offline sixpack

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Re: m.s
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2013, 03:18:36 PM »
i couldn t even believe that our mind, in order to "protect"us from something that we can not deal with make us to fear about something else.it s really strange.i prefere to concern about job,money etc that to have the m.s fear with all those symptoms

why not? 

have you not heard of conversion disorder?  there is a link embedded in the link I posted to you a day or so ago.  Along with that is a link about "the mind body syndrome".  Along with the link to the 100+ symptoms of anxiety.

and besides using our health as a cover there is the TRUTH that the stress in our lives or the uncomfortable truths that we refuse to deal with STILL AFFECTS US PHYSICALLY WHETHER WE SEE IT OR NOT.  Whether we are consciously aware that our lives are stressful or not.  Our stresses still cause aches/pains..... 

as mentioned, once you can learn about anxiety, in general, and about yourself specifically and then start working on things, you get better.
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MOST anxiety happens at the subconscious level.  JUST because you don't feel consciously anxious or had a day or two of calm doesn't mean your mind & body are relaxed.  It can take months of reduced anxiety before a body goes back to a more non-reactive state. 

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