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Author Topic: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?  (Read 3449 times)

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Offline coeus

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Re: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 02:38:41 AM »
Coeus, do you have some type of timidly or shyness problem? You skirt around what you want to say, but don't quite have the guts to say it.

There's no need to aggravate other people in this manner in order for them to express their perspective on a topic. If you want me to clarify something, simply ask me.

So in this thread, it doesn't take much to guess that you have some type of reservations against the use of supplements as medical or psychiatric interventions, but rather than stating this, and stating why you hold this view, you instead shyly couch your opinions in little comments about being "wary".

Nope, it doesn't take much guess at all. You're right that I do have some type of reservation against the use of supplements for the treatment of anxiety. Let me try to piece this logically together for you as possible with any deliberate disdain or aversion.

Firstly, here is one point I'll make clearly - I have my reservations in trusting a user's anecdotal experience especially when that user has only made two threads that are in relation to supplements and their potential positive impact on anxiety. This is, thus, a contextual point. I haven't seen a single post made by yourself about the positive interactions between an anxiety sufferer with respect to other innumerable strategies in helping alleviate anxiety nor have I seen any other posts that focused only on Saffron and your anti-inflammatory approach on anxiety. This partly forms a basis for my skepticism and suspicion towards your posts.

Why don't you just explicitly state what you believe, and explain the rationale and evidence behind your belief. If your argument is scientifically and logically sound, it will stand on its own strengths. I'd have far more respect for your views if you were upfront and explicit.

Sure. My belief is that while a priori knowledge is not sufficient for understanding the efficacy of a supplement - whether it be Saffron or an anti-inflammatory substance - your a posteriori approach on anxiety treatment which (I feel) is broadly characterised more or less by a 'try it yourself' mentality ignores both an empirical problem and epistemological problem from a clinical perspective. Let me preface that by saying that obviously I try to see the merit of any potential treatment for anxiety from a scientific perspective.

A quick search of brain inflammation and the relationship with anxiety (amongst many other mental symptoms) does yield results. However, you do note that this area of research is "newish" in your previous post. Relative to that evidence base for long-term benefits by using anti-inflammatory medication, the evidence base for long-term sustainable benefits for anxiety management such as psychotherapy and other prescribed medications is clinically stronger than that of the off-label indications of anti-inflammatory medication being used as a means for either relieving or reducing anxiety symptoms. Unconventional (and natural) third-wave psychotherapies such as mindfulness-based therapies are similarly "newish" as well, however, its efficacy for treating anxiety is strengthened by its extensive evidence base, of which I supposed as a line of treatment for anxiety but do note that it can bring to mind unpleasant experiences. This is to prove to you that (1) I do support natural therapies in one form or another (that can be backed up by a 'new' but wide evidence base for its efficacy for anxiety treatment and; (2) I do note the shortcomings of these therapies when need be, including prescribed medications.

The impetus for emphasising users to be 'wary' originates from exactly this commitment to selecting the appropriate treatment with the appropriate evidence base, in quality and quantity. Thus, given the comparative size of clinical and academic evidence base of Saffron and anti-inflammatory medications as a means for anxiety reduction to other reputable prescriptions and therapies, I advise to be cautious of those suggested natural supplements and approaches. As for the comment about being wary about ***** and being consistent with elaborating on potential dangers of prescribed medications, in most occasions I will note the risk of experiencing side effects and the need of consulting a physician/doctor before using/increasing them. Thus, I acknowledge the dangers and risks associated with prescribed medication.

Lastly, the epistemological problem is that we have 'what we know' vs. 'what we don't know' and also the length of what we do know - my belief resonates the former - I can only potentially support those lines of treatment for anxiety where there is an adequate breadth and quality of knowledge and evidence base for. Again, due to this, I tell users to be wary. I hope this clarifies things for you.
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Offline Hip

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Re: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 04:07:22 AM »
I have my reservations in trusting a user's anecdotal experience especially when that user has only made two threads that are in relation to supplements and their potential positive impact on anxiety. This is, thus, a contextual point. I haven't seen a single post made by yourself about the positive interactions between an anxiety sufferer with respect to other innumerable strategies in helping alleviate anxiety nor have I seen any other posts that focused only on Saffron and your anti-inflammatory approach on anxiety. This partly forms a basis for my skepticism and suspicion towards your posts.

So to summarize: you don't trust strangers. That may be a sign of lack of empathic skills, ie, the inability or reduced ability to decipher to minds and intentions of others.

Myself, I don't trust people who say they are scientific, but then like you, blatantly lie or dramatically exaggerate the dangers of OTC supplements, when these dangers are virtually non-existent. You are not the only skeptic I have come across that lies like this. This is a common lie among skeptics, for some reason.

How can call you even call yourself rational, when you blatantly give false information about the dangers of OTC supplements, and yet completely fail to mention the very real dangers of certain pharmaceuticals. Have you ever questioned yourself over your own honesty and consistency?


Sure. My belief is that while a priori knowledge is not sufficient for understanding the efficacy of a supplement - whether it be Saffron or an anti-inflammatory substance - your a posteriori approach on anxiety treatment which (I feel) is broadly characterised more or less by a 'try it yourself' mentality ignores both an empirical problem and epistemological problem from a clinical perspective. Let me preface that by saying that obviously I try to see the merit of any potential treatment for anxiety from a scientific perspective.

My approach, like any good scientific approach, is both theoretical and empirical. I have provided a theoretical framework to explain the cause of generalized anxiety disorder. If you look at the scientific literature, there are no theoretical frameworks that can explain anxiety disorder biochemically. There is a huge gap in our knowledge here. Thus I came up with my own theory of the biochemistry of anxiety, which of course may be totally wrong, but it guided me in my experimental (and successful) choice of treatments. This theory is outlined in my threads, in case you ever feel curious enough to read about it. The empirical side of my approach comes from testing various drugs and supplements, to find out by experiment the ones that work.

And all you polemic about anecdotal, personal experience counting for nothing: that is bullshit. Go tell Alexander Fleming that anecdotal experience counts for nothing, when he just happened to observe the dead bacteria in his petri dish. Or Barry Marshall, when he proved by a single experiment on himself that Helicobacter pylori was the cause of gastric ulcers. You do know about these pivotal point in medical science, don't you? Thus contrary to you assertion, anecdotal experience can be absolutely fundamental to scientific progress.
 

Lastly, the epistemological problem is that we have 'what we know' vs. 'what we don't know' and also the length of what we do know - my belief resonates the former - I can only potentially support those lines of treatment for anxiety where there is an adequate breadth and quality of knowledge and evidence base for. Again, due to this, I tell users to be wary.

So to summarize: you are too wary to generate your own knowledge by trying medications, and noting the effect. Not even OTC supplements, that for the large part, are extraordinarily safe. Unfortunate for you, because this type of knowledge derived from personal testing can often be more pertinent that that gained from large averaged out studies, because it is tailor made for your metabolism. That is the major point you seem to miss with your almost religious adherence to the gospel truth of RCTs. Until you understand the shortcomings of that statistical approach, as well as its great powers, you will never grasp the ethos of "alternative health". I also don't like pseudoscience, and I don't really like the side of "alternative health" that embraces pseudoscience; but I do know that without some personal experimentation  the ethos of "alternative health" you get nowhere fast. This is also the case with trying standard drugs. Sometimes certain antidepressant or anti-anxiety drugs just suit you, and others don't, and the only way to find which drug work best for you is just by trying them experimentally. Good doctors do this all the time with their patients, trying various drugs by trial and error until they hit the right one.



Anyway, I am going ask a moderator to remove all these off-topic posts from this thread, and put them elsewhere, because is has messed up the normal flow of the topic I started. This also happened to my last thread that examined the studies on saffron.

Or I might just start a new thread, and just dump this one. In any case, I kindly ask you not to hijack the flow of my threads in future.

 
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Offline coeus

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Re: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 04:10:22 AM »
Go ahead. I have no problem with that - it is your thread after all.
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Offline Hip

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Re: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 08:53:15 PM »
On a different note, Coeus, what I may do soon is post a new thread describing my mental symptoms that I am trying to address symptoms which include generalized anxiety disorder mixed in with significant ADHD, as well as some anhedonia and blunted affect (emotional flatness), and see what the experts on this forum such as yourself have to say or suggest in terms of pharmacological and other treatments. On that new thread, I would be most grateful for your input, Coeus.

Though my generalized anxiety disorder has been almost eliminated by the medications I am currently taking, it is always good to hear about other angles on anti-anxiety treatments. And I will be particularly interested in ADHD treatments, as this is a pretty large problem for me. My few experiments years ago with amphetamine street drugs indicated that I get severe depression the next following the use of amphetamines, so I am not sure if the use of stimulants like Ritalin might help my ADHD without causing these depression side effects, though I guess I ought to give Ritalin a try.
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Offline coeus

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Re: Is Anxiety Disorder Always Caused by Inflammation in the Brain?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 09:00:25 PM »
Would be happy to help in regards to that.
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