Nail Abnormalities? Terry's Nails? Hep C? Freaking out-HA has hit me full force!

[ClassicNerd]

Bear with me - this is a tad lengthy and I'm out of my mind with panic. So, I noticed last year that I apparently have "terry's nails" which is when your nail goes white or light pink with a dark band at the distal tip (right before the white free-edge). I'm not sure how long my nails have looked like this since I never really thought much of them before...until I read an article that said 'what your nails say about your health' - I know, I'm a bad, bad hypochondriac!

I showed this to my physician and he waved it off as nothing. He told me the nail abnormality that I was describing was not a significant indicator for any systemic disease in the absence of other symptoms and that my nails looked fine. I've read a lot of sites saying this is a definite sign of cirrhosis of the liver. I've got lots of energy, and none of the other signs/symptoms of liver disease, except some telangiectasia, and yellowing of the hands and feet the dr. said is from carotenosis (common in people with thyroid disease, and those who eat lots of veggies).

My doctor assured me that both terry's nails, and telangiectasia are signs of late, end-stage cirrhosis, and if I had that I'd have tons of other symptoms, and abnormal liver function tests (this year in Feb I had liver function blood tests and they were excellent). I do, however, have a thyroid condition (subclinical hypothyroidism) and my doctor mentioned terry's nails can occur in thyroid dysfunction, but is usually seen in hyperthyroid. He wasn't concerned as he said my thyroid levels probably fluctuate, which is why I sometimes have hyperthyroid symptoms.

However, I also know that people with hep c frequently show low thyroid function. I'm going crazy thinking that this is the reason my thyroid is low, especially considering my tests for thyroid antibodies came back negative. My doctor is not concerned because I have a history on both sides of the family of thyroid disease, plus a 4mm cyst on my thyroid (something attacked it).

I can't shake the feeling that perhaps I have hepatitis c. I know you can have normal liver functions and still have hep c and/or cirrhosis. I got a piercing and a tattoo 6 years ago when I wasn't such a mess, and I'm paranoid I contracted something, even though it was done in a licensed, commercial tattoo facility that is well-known and certified/inspected by the health board. My doctor told me my chances of contracting hep c from professionally done tattoos/piercings are slim to nill, and he told me that even if I did, it's FAR too early in the disease course for things like telangiectasia, and terry's nails. Nevertheless, he felt it would be impractical to do a blood test for hep c because: a) all liver, kidney, and CBC tests are normal, and b) he thinks it would be much healthier for me to work through this constant 'reassurance seeking’ than to get another medical test for a condition he doesn't think I'm at high risk for.

I feel like his decision not to test me is a little irresponsible. Normally he's an excellent doctor, but I'm furious I've been refused testing for hep c. It's just a simple blood test and I do feel it would be prudent considering my symptoms, and history of reckless behaviour (1 tattoo, 1 piercing).

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm just really freaking out here! Plus, this morning I had a BM and (TMI warning) my stool was a pale brown in colour. I know pale stools are indicative of liver disorders and viral hep. I just about had a heart attack and felt this huge surge of panic for the first time in a long time. I've been excellent recently, but HA is rearing its ugly head again, and mentally, I'm feeling worse than ever and completely discouraged. If you’ve stuck through until the end, thanks for reading!

[U2Bad1]

Nail abnormalities in the absence of other symptoms, like your doctor says, is not a symptom of anything.  Either your stool was pale or brown, don't think there is such thing as pale brown.

[vardnas]

Nerd, you said about three times in your post that your liver function tests were FINE. Fine meaning healthy, meaning absent of any problem, meaning free from disease. Fine, good, healthy, functioning. The chance of your having Hep C (and you don't even say WHY you think you have it) are extremely remote.

Stop being mad at your doctor for not giving you everything you want. He is CORRECT in thinking that a blood test is impractical at this point. And also correct in his assessment of your mental health; you DO need to work your way past this need for reassurance, full stop. He is being very wise and prudent in his words and actions. If I were your doctor, I'd tell you the same thing.

Listen, you're choosing to believe the INTERNET rather than your DOCTOR about a "problem" that you don't even have. My nails look janky and f'ed-up, too with white bands and red bands, etc. No doctor I've been to has ever raised an eyebrow. Stay off the internet, and sit tight. This is the hard part, getting past a lack of reassurance to the magical "other side." You may feel like crap now, but soon you won't.

[LindaRK]

Shut down google .... enuf said. :-)

My nails have stuff on them, too - dark lines, ridges ...... every time I see the doc she looks at my hands and I never knew why.  The minute I asked her is when I started having anxiety over my nails.  That eventually stopped, but goes to show how susceptible we are to this stuff!!!!

If you're tests are okay, leave it at that.  You're not presenting symptoms - you're good to go!

[ImObsessed]

Ok I feel like this post has my name all over it!
I too have TERRY'S NAILS!
I found it a couple years ago.
I showed a few doctors who weren't concerned, one doctor said he never heard of Terry's nails lol.
I have it nore on my big toes, but I always bite my fingers so they never get long enough.
I also have very pale finger nails. I have had that all my life.
And im also obsessed over my liver.
One doctor told me that finger nail changes, red palms, spider veins etc are all secondary signs of liver disease but the diagnosis is made with lab tests, not finger nail changes.

[ImObsessed]

If you really would feel better by getting a Hep C test, just go to the Red Cross and donate a pint of blood. They will check your blood for every hepatitus virtues, HIV and a few other things too. And they use labs that most don't have access to. And it's free!

[ClassicNerd]

Thank you all of you for your responses and support!

U2Bad1 -  I know I'm probably overreacting, but my mind keeps spinning this into something catastrophic and it seems a little too coincidental that all of my symptoms point to liver disease. My stool was a light brown (much lighter than usual). Freaked me right out!

Vardnas - I always appreciate your 'tough love' responses! They're what I really need to hear right now! I believe I have hep c because I got a tattoo and a piercing 6 years ago. My doctor showed me an article that states tats and piercings in liscensed facilities have virtually no risk of hep c infection - it's more prison tats and home tattoos/peircings where the concerns come in. Of course, I'm still not convinced, and this is why he told me he's not giving me the hep c test - he doesn't think it'll help alleviate the anxiety. My therapist said he's doing the right thing even if I don't think so! I'll try not to get so angry and I really need to stay away from the internet. You're right... I need to resist that urge to google and get to that "magical" place on my own.

LindaRK - One of my close friends has "terry's nails" too. She has a family history of various auto-immune diseases, and is suspected of having coealic disease, and hashimoto's. Her liver is great, and she definitely doesn't have hep c, so I'm trying to use that to calm myself! My doctor says checking the fingernails is a useful practice, but also outdated and misleading as there are so many conditions that cause fingernail abnormalities, and there are many, many variations on 'normal' fingernails.

ImObsessed - lol! You're the liver HA expert! This one is definitely for you!  Thank you so much for your reply! It actually makes me feel better to hear your take on this. Although I'm not happy that you're obsessed with your liver, and that you have experienced anxiety over terry's nails, thank you for replying - I feel much less alone! I have spider veins, too (lots of them - I've had them since youth, and since taking the birth control pill I have a bunch of telangiectasia on my arm). My doctor agrees terry's nails are not clinically significant, and can show up in any number of benign and serious health conditions.  I would love to give blood not just for the tests, but because it's something I've always wanted to do, but the doc says I have to wait until I get on synthroid for my low thyroid before I can donate!

[Itzomi]

I saw that "0278" article, too!  Well, wait, I *started* reading it, but then had the good sense not to "go there" and clicked it off!!!

0534, *I* have yellowed feet (orangey), reddish palms, spider veins, etc...  My liver & thyroid have always tested completely normal, but I seem to have the symptoms of liver & thyroid issues... Hm!  I don't have Terry's Nails, but I have ridges, and one nail sometimes wants to curve up, which supposedly means something, but thankfully I don't know what (or remember). 

0278 is the Debbil!!!!!

[ImObsessed]

I read the exact same article. Theres not that much online as far as Terrys Nails so a Google search brings that right up. I wish I never found that article. Last year when I first read it it got me crazy obsessed for 3 months.
I am going to try to take a picture of my nails latter and post them here for you. Im sure we are both fine

[ImObsessed]

I took a quick pic of my toenail, you can see the brown ring at the distal end. I keep my nails pretty short to avoid looking for this stuff, so if I let it grow it would be even worse

[marc]

Both of my thumbnails are pretty awful. I have my internal medicine physician and dermatologist look at it and
they said it is not indicative of anything serious.

[ClassicNerd]

Itzomi - I'm so glad to hear you are more sensible than I am! haha! The nail curving, I believe, is a harmless nutritional deficiency, but I can't remember exactly what it was. Most people I know have nails that curve when they get too long and most people I know aren't dying of any serious illnesses! My feet and hands are also this weird yellow-y colour, and I flipped thinking it was jaundice, but a quick blood test, and a physical exam proved otherwise. Apparently, I'm suffering from a mild bout of cartenosis cutis. I've been told it's harmless, but I should cut back on certain foods that are high in beta carotene if the apperance of my skin bothers me that much (carrots, obviously, cheese, matcha green tea, tomatoes - all sorts of stuff that's a staple in my diet). My doctor says if the whites of your eyes aren't yellow, it's not jaundice: it's carotenosis. Also, some people have a naturally yellow skin tone.

ImObsessed - thank you so much for all of your assistance! I really appreciate you taking the time to take a photo and post it here! My toenails and fingernails go like that too, though my fingernails look much worse. I have clipped them nice and short to keep from looking at them too! I read that article last year and became crazy for a few months as well. The worst part is I keep revisiting that fear of the terry's nails. My doctor had to research it and get a dermatologists opinion on it. The link between liver disease and terry's nails was recognized back in the 50s apparently, and there is no conclusive link between terry's nails and liver disease (just some theories). The derm told him that he sees the condition in a variety of patients who are ill, have mild nutritional deficiencies, hormone imbalances, etc... You're probably right about both of us being fine!

marc - thank you for your response! I've been told the practice of looking at nails as clues for systemic diseases is outdated. I would say: 'I really wish they wouldn't publish all of these scare artiles' but it's my own damn fault for reading them! lol! I hope your thumbnails get better!

[Itzomi]

Nerd,

Is carotenosis when the body can't process beta carotene properly? 

As for the fingermail, I probably do have a nutritional deficiency...  I have a pretty decent diet, but supposedly I have Leaky Gut Syndrome so I am losing nutrients.

It's a good thing my BF didn't see that article - he worries about his nail issues, too!!  I'm willing to bet most people have nail abnormalities and that a lot of people, hypos or not, freaked out needlessly over that article! 

[ClassicNerd]

Yes! Carotenosis occurs when too much beta carotene is ingested, or when the body cannot process beta carotene properly. I have both of those issues. I eat a lot of foods rich in beta carotene, and I am hypothyroid, which impairs the processing of beta carotene and causes it to build up in the body's tissue. My doctor tells me it is completely harmless, but quite alarming because a lot of people jump to the better known 'jaundice' diagnosis.

Is your boyfriend also a hypochondriac? I actually read a message board where a bunch of folks were discussing that article, and one individual spoke up and said it would be really easy to convince yourself you were suffering from any number of diseases by comparing the nails in the photographs to your nails.

[ImObsessed]

Yes! Carotenosis occurs when too much beta carotene is ingested, or when the body cannot process beta carotene properly. I have both of those issues. I eat a lot of foods rich in beta carotene, and I am hypothyroid, which impairs the processing of beta carotene and causes it to build up in the body's tissue. My doctor tells me it is completely harmless, but quite alarming because a lot of people jump to the better known 'jaundice' diagnosis.

Is your boyfriend also a hypochondriac? I actually read a message board where a bunch of folks were discussing that article, and one individual spoke up and said it would be really easy to convince yourself you were suffering from any number of diseases by comparing the nails in the photographs to your nails.

ok I also have this issue of too much betacarotein. My hands and skin sometimes has an orange or yellow pigment. The palms and soles too at times. But I read that with Liver disease, the Liver cant process the betacarotein and causes this. Unless its caused by over-eatting beta carotein rich foods. That did make me a little nervous. Last year when I was eatting oranges every day people at work even mentioned that I looks orange color.

It is also caused by hypothyroid. I am very suspicious that I may have a thyroid problem. I also have palmer erythmer or red palms (another sign of liver disease) and that is also a sign of thyroid problems!
Unfortunately its impossible to test my thyroid because I am taking testosterone because of low T. When you are on T therapy it suppresses the thyroid hormons so its impossible to get a reading.

[ClassicNerd]

I've heard carotenosis can occur as part of liver disease, but my doctor told me that carotenosis is not typical of liver disease. Carotenosis can be caused by eating oranges, surprisingly (or maybe unsurprisingly!) Kale and all sorts of other food you wouldn't think could turn you yellow/orange acutally have very high beta carotene and can cause carotenosis.

If you're taking testosterone, and it supresses your thyroid hormones, then it is possible it is slowing down the processing of beta carotene. Apparently a lot of symptoms of liver disease are similar to symptoms of thyroid troubles (whether they be from hashimoto's disease, which runs in my family, or drug-induced hypothyroid, from taking certain medications).

Don't you hate it when people comment on your health? lol! Last year a lady at my work told me one of the moles on my arm looked 'irregular' and that I should get it checked out because many people in her family died of skin cancer that arose from similar moles. I know she meant well, and I certainly don't expect anyone to walk on egg shells, but it freaked me right out! Turns out the mole was fine and all the panic was for nothing!

[Itzomi]

Yes! Carotenosis occurs when too much beta carotene is ingested, or when the body cannot process beta carotene properly. I have both of those issues. I eat a lot of foods rich in beta carotene, and I am hypothyroid, which impairs the processing of beta carotene and causes it to build up in the body's tissue. My doctor tells me it is completely harmless, but quite alarming because a lot of people jump to the better known 'jaundice' diagnosis.

Is your boyfriend also a hypochondriac? I actually read a message board where a bunch of folks were discussing that article, and one individual spoke up and said it would be really easy to convince yourself you were suffering from any number of diseases by comparing the nails in the photographs to your nails.

I probably eat a decent amount of beta-carotene, but I wouldn't think it's enough to turn my feet yellow!

My boyfriend isn't a full-fledged hypo in the sense that he worries every day, but it doesn't take much to get him going!

Great, I went potty this morning and saw blood from my backside.  Get to worry about something else!    *sigh*

[ImObsessed]

somebody here mentioned cheese earlier. I didnt know cheese was high in betacarotein?

[ClassicNerd]

That was me who mentioned cheese has beta carotene! I'm not sure how much beta carotene it has in it - probably not as much as carrots, but I've been told it contains some beta carotene. 

[not2bforgot10]

Yes! Carotenosis occurs when too much beta carotene is ingested, or when the body cannot process beta carotene properly. I have both of those issues. I eat a lot of foods rich in beta carotene, and I am hypothyroid, which impairs the processing of beta carotene and causes it to build up in the body's tissue. My doctor tells me it is completely harmless, but quite alarming because a lot of people jump to the better known 'jaundice' diagnosis.

Is your boyfriend also a hypochondriac? I actually read a message board where a bunch of folks were discussing that article, and one individual spoke up and said it would be really easy to convince yourself you were suffering from any number of diseases by comparing the nails in the photographs to your nails.

I too have hypothyroidism, and we need to talk!  Please email me on my personal email:  not2bforgot10@0201.  That's not2bforgot10 at 0305 0538

Thanks!

[ClassicNerd]

Hey not2bforgot10! Your email didn't show up, unfortunately! Please PM me if you'd like to chat privately. This is a fairly old post and I'm feeling much better now. I'm not so freaked out about my hypothyroidism. I wouldn't mind chatting with you about it. It is a fairly common ailment and mine is actually improving! lol! It's not really a condition to be freaked out about.