What is the true underlying meaning of Christmas?

[GenSec]

Hi,

Its coming up to that time of year again!

We all know the arguments that Christmas has lost much of its original spiritual meaning - the birth of Christ - due to it being taken over by consumerism. However, a few days ago i came across a well-written article by a group of Scottish Presbyterians (the national faith of my country) which argues very convincingly that Christmas even in its traditionally pure religious form should not be celebrated by Christians. In fact, it puts forth the conclusion that Christmas has always been an anti-Christian event!

I found it a fascinating piece of writing. I knew already that some Christian denominations like Quakers and many Presbyterians do not recognise Christmas as a genuine Christian event, but this article explained their reasoning to me in a very helpful way. For a very brief time Christmas was actually legally banned in Britain by the devoutly Puritan Lord Protector of Britain, Oliver Cromwell, during his 1653-1659 Protectorate.

I've already PMed this article to a couple of Christian acquaintances who are members here: one agreed with the arguments of the article, whilst the other disagreed with the reasoning behind it. That merely increased my curiousity even more!

So, i was wondering if other Christians, a wider audience, might be interested in reading it too - it is a serious thought provoking article and if i were a Christian it would definitely give me something to think about:

http://www.fpchurch.org.uk/Beliefs/Should_Christians_Celebrate_Christmas.php

Best,
Gen.

[christina10778]

Good idea Gen 

This will be interesting and very informative if everyone stays civil 

[GenSec]

There's no need for it to be anything but civil. Its just a Christian perspective on Christmas.

For my own reasons i don't bother with Christmas either. 1) i am not Christian and 2) i've always had the socialist-inspired belief that Christmas is just a consumerist rip-off. So apart from my mother insisting that we have a tree put up every year, i have nothing to do with it. I don't even give out gifts, and i only receive gifts from a couple of die-hards even though i tell them not to give me anything. They get upset if i refuse to bother with their gifts. But by now most know not to give me anything.

I know i should probably adapt to modern times and snort "i don't want anything from you" or "i don't want it, not interested", but i can still remember the times when the feelings behind the gift were more important and deserved consideration. You either just accept it regardless with a thank-you out of respect for the other person or you rack your brain to come up with a considerate excuse for being unable to accept it from them. But thats just me. Times and habits move on rather swiftly it would seem.

Christmas is treated like any other day by me. And always will be.

[tinam7]

Now I happen to like Christmas and I'm atheist. We atheists are humans, after all, not alien creatures. We like goodwill, hope, compassion, charity, pretty lights, lovely music and we even like gifts. If someone wants to give me a gift, the actual gift will be minor having little to nothing to do with the gesture and feelings behind the gift. It will make me happy to have such feelings coming my way.

I also like to watch for any new findings regarding ancient times that sometimes air around Christmas. It is a very nice time of year when precious Peace seems to be in the air and a possibility.

[GenSec]

Maybe i should have renamed myself Scrooge! lol!

Well Tinam, the article argues that Christmas represents pre-Christian pagan celebrations that the Catholic church cynically introduced into the Christian tradition centuries after Christ's death. But they pretended it was an ancient tradition anyway. Previous to this Pagan event being introduced into Christian tradition the early Christian church did not celebrate nor recognise anything like the Christmas we have come to know for many centuries now. They also point out that Christ was not born in winter, let alone December. So why do we celebrate Christmas in winter? We celebrate Christmas in winter because this was the season when pre-Christian pagan festivals such as Yuletide took place. The Catholic church decided to try and make itself more popular with the pagans societies it came into contact with by adopting their (un-Christian) winter festivals and slapped Christ's birth onto it to try and legitimise the rather dodgy adoption.

Hence according to the argument put forward by the article, it follows that being an athiest and celebrating Christmas isn't really a problem - because it isn't a true Christian event anyway. There are Christian denominations out there who do not mark Christmas at all.

Goodwill, hope, compassion, charity, and peace are all lovely ideals i agree; but i don't need Christmas to teach them to me. I can appreciate them all based on their own merits.

[GlimmerOH]

Interesting article.  I know why I celebrate Christmas, even with the knowledge that it was not a tradition until well after Christ's birth, death and resurrection.

As Christians, we are taught to be in the world, but not of it.  It's a hard balance most days, and that's why we constantly need God's forgiveness as we learn each day.  Segregating ourselves from the general public's celebrations only highlights our differences, whereas learning to share in some traditions, by putting a 'God spin' on it helps to build a bridge and make this life 'tolerable' so-to-speak.

Similar to how society picked up on the Christian faith's most important celebration:  Easter.  That didn't become a commercialized/secularized holiday until the recent past as a result of more and more people rejecting faith in general.  I guess that just shows a human trait of wanting to be included, even if we don't agree on the reasons behind the celebrations?

We had a guest speaker at our Church just a week before Halloween, and he shared with us some of the origins of the 'trick-or-treat' tradition.  In Ireland, before the Christian missionaries arrived, the community believed that the separation between the living and the dead thinned out the day before their new year (which was November 1st).  Because the spirits could move freely over that threshold, it was believed that they would come and terrorize the community.  One way to appease the spirits was to give them food....so some neighbors would disguise themselves (so as not to be recognized by the dead), and go door to door asking for food...which they would then go and place on graves.  They would also carve out gourds to keep the spirits away from their homes.  When the Christian missionaries arrived, they decided not to do away with the practice, but rather change it from a 'fear-based' activity to a fun evening of dressing up and sharing of the food supplies.

All this to say, regardless of where traditions begin, or for what reason, most celebrations are an attempt to congregate and share in a common good time.   

[GenSec]

That is a very interesting answer.

In Scotland, we do celebrate Christmas but we do not make as big a deal of it as we do New Year/Hogmany. A few years ago during spare time between two lectures at university i read an article which said that this is because the pagans in the north of Britain/Vikings made a huge deal out of New Year and Christmas even to this day hasn't eclipsed it.

Furthermore after the Presbyterian Reformation in 1560, Christmas was strongly discouraged by the Scottish national church from 1583 onwards. And shockingly, Christmas day remained an ordinary working day in Scotland until 1958! And today it still plays second fiddle to New Year.

GlimmerOH has made me think on something....
If Christians are to argue that they cannot celebrate Christmas because it is not in the Bible, then why do they have sunday school, or choirs, etc? Because none of them are in the Bible either. Yet they are without a doubt considered Christian. If folks are to take a super-strict interpetation of the Bible and only allow whats specifically stated in it, then quite a few Christian traditions would have to be discarded wouldn't they?

But if i am honest GlimmerOH, i didn't expect you to disagree with the article. I thought you may have found yourself in agreement with it. But indeed i so suppose trying to find ways to allow everyone to be included in ceremonies - even through altering their meaning slightly from person to person - creates more harmony and positive unity amongst us. Thats quite a nice position to take.

As for me, i'm wondering if i'm going to get my visit from the 3 ghosts this coming Christmas Eve. lol. If not, then this Christmas will remain another unmarked day just like any other day of the year for me. But i do have one tradition - i love to watch the Muppet Christmas Carol every year. Its still the best thing the put on the box for Christmas. I never miss it.

[darkeye]

I love to celebrate the season, i enjoy decorating my house in pretty colours and lights and i enjoy even more the act of feasting on seasonal foods and spending time with loved ones and celebrating the coming back of the summer. I like to give gifts to those close to me to celebrate  the year coming to an end.... however the season i my family is more about making time for each other and enjoying the time, food, drink shared. Personally i don't believe any of the stuff about the birth of christ etc.... i just celebrate the Solstice on the 21st... the longest night, and celebrate that i ave made it through another year and give thanks to everything that i still have and this year i will also mourn my mother who i lost this year, but give thanks for the memories that i still have..... she loved christmas, the decorations and food! So i will have to eat twice as much for her 

[Lemur]

We all know the arguments that Christmas has lost much of its original spiritual meaning - the birth of Christ - due to it being taken over by consumerism. However, a few days ago i came across a well-written article by a group of Scottish Presbyterians (the national faith of my country) which argues very convincingly that Christmas even in its traditionally pure religious form should not be celebrated by Christians. In fact, it puts forth the conclusion that Christmas has always been an anti-Christian event!

lol

A lot of people seem to forget its Pagan routes, sadly (me being one of them  ).

I dunno, my family have always celebrated it by getting together, eating at a buffet, buying eachother gifts. And gosh, I don't think it's possible to find a more irreligious family.

I guess we're a victim to consumerism. Though, I ain't complaining. 

[GenSec]

It all goes to show that Christmas, like everything else, evolves, doesn't it? Our reasons for it change to suit the times. In the past it was pagan beliefs. Then organised religion took hold of society and it became a Christian event. Now, again, its changing to fit in with an ever-changing modern society. Its being gradually secularised and consumerised. Thats not a value judgement. Just an observation. I have no doubt that over the centuries Christmas festivities and the reasons behind them will keep evolving to better reflect an evolving society.

Like your family, Lemur, mine are also totally irreligious. They are avowed athiests. And like you darkeye, i don't believe any of the J. Christ tale neither. Also, sorry also about your mother.

However, the Scottish tend to still focus on New Year/Hogmany rather than Christmas. Until the 1950's Christmas wasn't even a holiday in Scotland. You had to work on it just like any other weekday. New Year was the main day for a family gathering, a meal, and sing songs. Even today its like that in alot of Scottish households. The English tend to focus on Christmas whereas the Scots tended to focus on New Year/Hogmany. Christmas has never been a big deal for my family. We exchange gifts yes and we eat something, but really we are preparing for the bigger celebration - Hogmany. In recent years i don't even bother with Christmas at all. Its just another day for me.

As Scrooge himself would say.... "Humbug!"

[Crimson Serenity]

My feelings are the last bubble there: Christmas "... is a wonderful opportunity to share our love with friends and family, and commit acts of goodwill for those that are less fortunate." (not that you need Christmas to do so, but it is a time specifically set aside to remember to do so) "It is a time for children to revel in their innocence and wonder about the world, and for adults to find their inner child." I would also say that it's about sharing traditions with our family, about feeling the warmth and cooking feel-good food and baking and spending time together surrounded with warm, festive decor and celebration. It's about that little sprinkle of magic that we pass to our children and the joy of giving and bringing a smile to the faces of those we love.

[GenSec]

My feelings are the last bubble there: Christmas "... is a wonderful opportunity to share our love with friends and family, and commit acts of goodwill for those that are less fortunate." (not that you need Christmas to do so, but it is a time specifically set aside to remember to do so) "It is a time for children to revel in their innocence and wonder about the world, and for adults to find their inner child." I would also say that it's about sharing traditions with our family, about feeling the warmth and cooking feel-good food and baking and spending time together surrounded with warm, festive decor and celebration. It's about that little sprinkle of magic that we pass to our children and the joy of giving and bringing a smile to the faces of those we love.

The cartoon certainly made me smile, even if the argument it makes is a touch over-romanticised. Though perhaps thats just a reflection of the past Christmases i've had.

I find Christmas a slow, boring, even at times depressing day of the year. Its so long and pointless. It seems to last 72 hours rather than just 24. You don't live it, you endure it. Whenever i say to one of my family (like i do every year so that its become a tradition in itself) "can't we cancel or ban Christmas this year like Cromwell did?" i get a smirk and a play-angry response along the lines of "Thats communist talk! Quiet you! Wash your mouth out! If we have to endure it then you are going to as well. Just bear it for the day like the rest of us have to. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
And whenever its near Christmas, my sister always jokes that maybe i'll get my visit from the 3 ghosts this year. That one always seems to amuse her regardless of how old that record is. Symbolises Christmas to a T.

Even my New Year's are going the same way... for the past 2 New Year's, i've gone to bed before midnight.

As can be seen, my house is crammed full of festive cheer. lol.

[Frog]

I would rather be a redneck....  Have a Merry Christmas and then a Happy New Year or Hogmany.
 It all strikes me as something  like getting a puppy, all cute and fun.
Then they turn into a DOG.   

[GenSec]

I would rather be a redneck....  Have a Merry Christmas and then a Happy New Year or Hogmany.
 It all strikes me as something  like getting a puppy, all cute and fun.
Then they turn into a DOG.   

Happy Christmas and New Year wishes to you too!

Gen.

[fistpumpforpaxil]

great find on that article

[GenSec]

In fact, i'll extend my Happy Christmas and New Year wishes to everyone on the thread... even you are sincerely included in that too, GlimmerOH! Ha ha.

Hope everyone has a nice time, in whatever way they chose to interpret and mark the holiday season.

[GlimmerOH]

Merry Christmas!   

[GenSec]

Hope you, and all the others here, had a nice New Year. Mine was nothing special, but very pleasant.

Kind regards,
Gen.

[Frog]

And is there any awaiting a Valentine?  I am going to surprise mine with a ....................................... .

[GenSec]

And is there any awaiting a Valentine?  I am going to surprise mine with a ....................................... .

Ha ha.
No, i'm not awaiting anything on Valentine's. The last card i recieved from someone was over 10 years ago.