9/11 vs everyday death

[floridaguy65]

And, I have to believe that the USA and its allies, overwhelmingly, made their decisions based upon the facts that were clear and present and attainable at the time.

I don't believe that's true at all FlGuy. Legendary investigative journalist Bob Woodward for instance, in his book Plan of Attack, describes how Bush and his top men had decided early on in his presidency to oust Saddam by force. They were always going to go into Iraq, they just had to think of the best thing to pin it on - this of course came via 9/11 and the fabricated threat that Saddam might supply Al Qaeda with nuclear material (totally unfounded). It's not like the US and allies 'stumbled' on some facts, it was all made up. I hated this fact because I used to be a bit of a liberal interventionalist, and I can be a bit hawkish at times - but this was plain wrong and I no longer hold those ideas much anymore.

Blair was Bush's perfect ally, because Blair has always been a liberal interventionalist. This was first evident during the Kosovo crisis.

I think somewhere along the line it was assumed I was speaking about Iraq, but if you look back at my posts, I was only willing to go as far as what happened in the months following 9/11/01. The USA didn't go into IRAQ until 2003, I believe. The action we took against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, started almost immediately following the attacks, with the information of imminent danger being present and, still, a serious, viable threat. There is, certainly, another story as far as the information available, the information vetted, and the intentions behind the invasion of Iraq....with that I agree.  Bill Clinton, Prez sandwiched in between the Bush boys, said that he fully believed that Iraq had WMDs up until the actual fall of Hussein. And in a speech he said, 

"If Saddam Hussein fails to comply and we fail to act or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction...he will then conclude that he can go right on doing more to build an arsenal of devastating destruction.... Some way, someday, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."

- President Bill Clinton on February 18, 1998 speaking at the Pentagon.

This quote isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things and this is no endorsement, by me, of the invasion of 2003, in anyway. Just a point that S. Hussein was a bad dude that flaunted his 0104 to the UN for many years and terrorized his people, killed innocent Iraqis by the scores and stole their money. He absolutely did create a serious sense of impending doom through his actions and rhetoric. My goodness he had just invaded Kuwait a few years earlier, too.

Enough to warrant an invasion? To many - No. But to many - yes, as well.

Peace:)

[peepo23]

I think somewhere along the line it was assumed I was speaking about Iraq, but if you look back at my posts, I was only willing to go as far as what happened in the months following 9/11/01. The USA didn't go into IRAQ until 2003, I believe. The action we took against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, started almost immediately following the attacks, with the information of imminent danger being present and, still, a serious, viable threat. There is, certainly, another story as far as the information available, the information vetted, and the intentions behind the invasion of Iraq....with that I agree.  Bill Clinton, Prez sandwiched in between the Bush boys, said that he fully believed that Iraq had WMDs up until the actual fall of Hussein. And in a speech he said, 

"If Saddam Hussein fails to comply and we fail to act or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction...he will then conclude that he can go right on doing more to build an arsenal of devastating destruction.... Some way, someday, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."

- President Bill Clinton on February 18, 1998 speaking at the Pentagon.

This quote isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things and this is no endorsement, by me, of the invasion of 2003, in anyway. Just a point that S. Hussein was a bad dude that flaunted his ***** to the UN for many years and terrorized his people, killed innocent Iraqis by the scores and stole their money. He absolutely did create a serious sense of impending doom through his actions and rhetoric. My goodness he had just invaded Kuwait a few years earlier, too.

Enough to warrant an invasion? To many - No. But to many - yes, as well.

Peace:)

Gotcha.

Interesting, Gen. d'you know, my knowledge of the Israel-Palestine stuff is so poor, I honestly am not clued up (despite it being one the most major ongoing international feuds).

[GenSec]

Interesting, Gen. d'you know, my knowledge of the Israel-Palestine stuff is so poor, I honestly am not clued up (despite it being one the most major ongoing international feuds).

To be fair, i am probably too blinded concerning the Syria situation.

There is something about Assad the man that i just find attractive. Whenever i watch him on tv interviews he seems so... genuine. Sophisticated. Cultured. Mature. His quiet personal manner. He is Arab, but he has these deep attractive European-like coloured eyes. His moustache and sharp suits also impress me... i like a man with good wardrobe sense. He's my kinda guy!

He's my fav dictator around at the moment, lol. Most dictators are older ugly men who are a bit nuts. Have an unfortunate tendency to shout their mouth off alot. Lack decorum. Their dress sense tends to be awful, tasteless. Assad is different. I like his style!

Whenever i see him, he strikes me as an extra from the old romantic black and white film Casablanca..... he just looks like one of those men from the 1940's with the moustaches and arty thin cigarettes in their hand. All he lacks is the Fez on top of his head.

Maybe i could flee this country, claim asylum in Syria and he'd let me live the rest of my life in his glorious socialist economic paradise...

Sorry, i'll stop my weird Assad thing now, ha ha!

Great: way to go making myself look like a total oddball. lol!

Best,
Gen.

[peepo23]

I'm not gonna lie it was pretty odd.  And he's a complete uggo!

[GenSec]

I'm not gonna lie it was pretty odd.  And he's a complete uggo!

Ha ha!

You wouldn't understand how to appreciate such matters anyways...

[floridaguy65]

You have an interesting, unique view....I'll give you that:) LOL. I see where you're coming from, though. But, there is an old phrase here: "a wolf in sheep's clothing" - that might apply, as well, perhaps...depending on your view of what's happening in Syria. 

Once a socialist, always a socialist...for you, right?:) I applaud your sincere insights. I'm always impressed by your knowledge and views of what's going on, though I don't agree with some:) But, that's what makes the world an exciting, interesting place, at times....the ability to espouse your beliefs without the fear of retribution. Like in Syria? Whoops, sorry - low blow...I just couldn't resist the friendly jab:)

I always found King Hussein of Jordan an interesting and impressive man. His wife, Queen Noor, was quite beautiful, an American once, and a leader in many political and human rights causes. The same can be said of his son Abdullah ll, he was educated in the US and Oxford, and he has a most beautiful wife himself, Queen Rania, who does much of her own good works, too.

Peace, Gen:)

[crazygirl1]

I have to say this:
People will never agree on what the government does all the time."....almost immediately following the attacks, with the information of imminent danger being present and, still, a serious, viable threat." That is why we went to war. We were attacked  and had we NOT gone there we would be having solemn days of silent remembrance for those who would have been killed after 9/11. MY OPINION> I don't usually come here and get involved in arguments and so I hope ya'll can respect my stance, my opinion.

Just a little off---if you don't wish to remember 9/11 victims, then DON'T. No need to question those of us who choose to.

[GenSec]

You have an interesting, unique view....I'll give you that:) LOL. I see where you're coming from, though. But, there is an old phrase here: "a wolf in sheep's clothing" - that might apply, as well, perhaps...depending on your view of what's happening in Syria. 

Once a socialist, always a socialist...for you, right?:) I applaud your sincere insights. I'm always impressed by your knowledge and views of what's going on, though I don't agree with some:) But, that's what makes the world an exciting, interesting place, at times....the ability to espouse your beliefs without the fear of retribution. Like in Syria? Whoops, sorry - low blow...I just couldn't resist the friendly jab:)

I always found King Hussein of Jordan an interesting and impressive man. His wife, Queen Noor, was quite beautiful, an American once, and a leader in many political and human rights causes. The same can be said of his son Abdullah ll, he was educated in the US and Oxford, and he has a most beautiful wife himself, Queen Rania, who does much of her own good works, too.

Peace, Gen:)

Hi floridaguy,

Its alright, I was only having some fun at Assad’s expense, lol. Back in reality, i can appreciate that he is a dictator who has never stood in a free and fair election. His father was especially brutal at times. I was just indulging in silliness earlier on to try and lighten my quite depressed mood at the moment.

Assad doesn’t identify himself as socialist. He is the leader of the Ba'ath Party. Islam remains the primary ideological influence on Syria not socialism, although Sharia Law is not in place as the legal code. In addition, Islamic religious clerics are not given any political influence (unlike Saudi Arabia and other Arab states). This is why he is often photographed in Syria’s parliament alongside religious minority leaders such as Christians. He claims to be the leader of a secular state which allows freedom of worship. To a certain extent Assad is supported among the Christian minorities because they fear a Muslim state will replace him that will discriminate against them. This is no misplaced concern. In the pro-Assad government rallies held in major cities within Syria you will often see Christian imagery among the crowds.

Islam considers socialism to be a man-made system and therefore alien to the will of Allah. So in truth the vast bulk of the Muslim Middle East rejects anything to do with socialism. However, to be fair they don't like capitalism very much neither. So they often float in between the two in this odd eclectic mix of socialist elements, capitalist elements and Islamic teaching. What has influenced Syrian economics is that it used to be an ally of the old communist USSR. So it has copied certain aspects of it economically.

We don’t have to agree on everything, floridaguy. You are spot on; we were fortunate to be born and raised in societies where freedom to disagree is commonplace. Variety makes the world a more interesting place! Its healthy that folks don't all agree with one another, as long as rspect and tolerance is retained. You always respect me in any thread, and I always seek to respect you. You’re a good guy and i enjoy reading the responses you write on these forums.

Best,
Gen.

[floridaguy65]

Once a socialist, always a socialist...for you, right?:)

I meant you, as in you - Gen:) My wording was poor and it came after a paragraph speaking of Asaad - my bad:) Enjoyed your info, though...for sure.

I saw where your Mom declined services. I know it's tough...hang in there and do what you feel is necessary, and do what you feel is right. There just isn't much else we can do other than that. Keep in mind that, in the end, you must be diligent to take care of your own mental health (and physical health, of course). Looking out for ourselves can get lost in the shuffle of trying to help others, at times.

Peace:)

[GenSec]

Once a socialist, always a socialist...for you, right?:)

I meant you, as in you - Gen:) My wording was poor and it came after a paragraph speaking of Asaad - my bad:) Enjoyed your info, though...for sure.

I saw where your Mom declined services. I know it's tough...hang in there and do what you feel is necessary, and do what you feel is right. There just isn't much else we can do other than that. Keep in mind that, in the end, you must be diligent to take care of your own mental health (and physical health, of course). Looking out for ourselves can get lost in the shuffle of trying to help others, at times.

Peace:)

Kind thanks. I always appreciate your advice.

Tonight my sister was playing poker on a website, and she called me over saying "this guy at the table has a pic of an Arab guy in a suit, who is it?" So i went and had a look - it was the man himself, Assad! I laughed with delight, and explained how a few days ago i'd had a conversation about him here. When the guy with the Assad pic on his profile won a hand, i typed in "Nice hand Assad! God bless Assad! :)" I started getting broken replies in English from the player at the table, a man who said he was Syrian! He was cheering Assad and thanking me for my support of his leader. 

Who knows... maybe i spoke to the big man himself... God knows what he does in his spare time! Maybe he plays poker online!