catholic church wont baptize my baby!

[GenSec]

Best wishes with it all.

Hope something positive works out for you and your daughter.

[Carryon]

Thanks for your input sixpack, I agree with what your saying.
 I am still trying to get over how cold that priest was with me. I truly didn't know the difference between the traditions of a baptism and the requirements of the church. Well he told me! And in the process lost a possible future sheep in his flock.
 Not once in our exchanges did he even ask me to consider coming back to the church, even for my daughters sake. He was though more than happy to scold me like a child... I hope for the Catholic church that he was just having a few bad days and took it out on me..
 Still looking forward to starting anew with the Lutherans this Sunday!
 Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom.
 Steve

Not a bad day; he's a Catholic priest! You're lucky he didn't put you over his knee and start using a ruler.

You want "touchy feely" spiratuality with some modernity? Keep shopping.

[sixpack]

Thanks for your input sixpack, I agree with what your saying.
 I am still trying to get over how cold that priest was with me. I truly didn't know the difference between the traditions of a baptism and the requirements of the church. Well he told me! And in the process lost a possible future sheep in his flock.
 Not once in our exchanges did he even ask me to consider coming back to the church, even for my daughters sake. He was though more than happy to scold me like a child... I hope for the Catholic church that he was just having a few bad days and took it out on me..
 Still looking forward to starting anew with the Lutherans this Sunday!
 Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom.
 Steve

As priests are human,  there are bad ones and wonderful ones.  I have seen both but luckily more wonderful ones.

I'm glad you are starting anew!!   Good luck

[sixpack]

Thanks for your input sixpack, I agree with what your saying.
 I am still trying to get over how cold that priest was with me. I truly didn't know the difference between the traditions of a baptism and the requirements of the church. Well he told me! And in the process lost a possible future sheep in his flock.
 Not once in our exchanges did he even ask me to consider coming back to the church, even for my daughters sake. He was though more than happy to scold me like a child... I hope for the Catholic church that he was just having a few bad days and took it out on me..
 Still looking forward to starting anew with the Lutherans this Sunday!
 Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom.
 Steve

Not a bad day; he's a Catholic priest! You're lucky he didn't put you over his knee and start using a ruler.

You want "touchy feely" spiratuality with some modernity? Keep shopping.

one of the more snarky remarks I've ever seen of you carryon.  Not all priests are unkind just like all athiests are not.  You don't know all priests or religious so quit generalizing.  I've known more admirable priests than jerky ones.

[Carryon]

Where did I say "all" priests? 

[sixpack]

who cares if you said all priests. and in actuality you said Not a bad day; he's a Catholic priest  meaning as a catholic priest, he is inclined to behave badly.   Who says any priest would do as you suggested?  It was a childish remark. 

[Carryon]

Because some have -- and as you surely know have done far worse things. And how do you know it did not happen to me or some loved one or friend or appears in a record in a case against the church or a book on the church?

[GenSec]

Well shut my mouth....

I've just been on the Presbyterian Church of Scotland's website, and on it they detail the meaning of Baptism.

Apparently, children are Baptised in front of the whole congregation on a sunday to show the pledge of the child's parents to educate their child in the morality and ways of the Church of God. This is the duty of the parents when they Baptise their child. You only baptise a child if you intend to honour this pledge and fulfill this duty. Baptism is not about the child's soul as such.

At age 16, the child then gets to decide whether to become a full independent church member. If they do not wish to be a member of the church, they simply decline something called Confirmation which takes place at the age of 16. End of story.

So, if you don't intend to educate and bring your child up in this manner, you shouldn't take the pledge to do so by Baptising your child. Even Protestants argue this.

Sounds alot like the Catholic Baptism practice.

Just wanted to clarify my own error. Apologies. I hold my hands up to my prior ignorance on this matter.

[Carryon]

Well shut my mouth....

I've just been on the Presbyterian Church of Scotland's website, and on it they detail the meaning of Baptism.

Apparently, children are Baptised in front of the whole congregation on a sunday to show the pledge of the child's parents to educate their child in the morality and ways of the Church of God. This is the duty of the parents when they Baptise their child. You only baptise a child if you intend to honour this pledge and fulfill this duty. Baptism is not about the child's soul as such.

At age 16, the child then gets to decide whether to become a full independent church member. If they do not wish to be a member of the church, they simply decline something called Confirmation which takes place at the age of 16. End of story.

So, if you don't intend to educate and bring your child up in this manner, you shouldn't take the pledge to do so by Baptising your child. Even Protestants argue this.

Sounds alot like the Catholic Baptism practice.

Just wanted to clarify my own error. Apologies. I hold my hands up to my prior ignorance on this matter.

If so, it sounds like a misapplication of baptism the New Testament. And of course, adults can be baptized, conflating it even more.

[GenSec]

In the early era of the Christian church, baptism was for adults. John the Baptist mainly baptised adults.

It was only later on, in the medieval era, that baptism was altered in character and became primarily for children. And its meaning altered somewhat.

[Carryon]

In the early era of the Christian church, baptism was for adults. John the Baptist mainly baptised adults.

It was only later on, in the medieval era, that baptism was altered in character and became primarily for children. And its meaning altered somewhat.

If "followers" stopped being followers and started thinking for themselves and instead read the New Testament as an historical document not in bible class and with an open mind they would find the glaring inconsistencies and manmade changes. Instead they let someone else tell them what it means. Sheep indeed.

[Cuchculan]

Just from reading the original post and to explain a bit about some churches are now doing things. They are even stopping weddings. Why? Because those getting married don't attend church. The church is telling them ' if you attend mass for 4 months you can have your wedding '. It is the churches way of saying that they feel like they are being used. Not all churches are like this though. It wasn't an order handed out. It was just individual priests making their own rules up. And they will always be backed up by the heads of the church. Bit like having to shop around these days. To find a church that hasn't got such rules. How serious are they on it? My aunt was refused communion ( the bread ) because her husband had died and she was seeing another man. The priest knew about this and told her she can't have communion under the church rules. Then they wonder why so many people are turning their backs on the church. But the only thing I see is that the priest knows you and your wife don't attend mass. So would have the view that your kid won't be attending mass either. Kind of like the priest saying ' why should we put ourselves out, we are getting nothing back '. Even try attending a few services. Show him you are there. For the sake of your child. I'm sort of 50/50 over the whole issue. The church is used a lot by people who don't ever intend using it again. So in a way they should have a right to say ' No ' if they feel this is the case. But on the other hand they are doing themselves no favours. Case of do they take the gamble or not? That they might gain from it long term wise.

[GenSec]

Found this interesting little online Q & A session on a Quaker Meeting website. Thought its interpretation of baptism was interesting -

Q: Do Quakers practise water baptism?
A: No. Jesus baptises his true followers in the Holy Spirit. Water baptism was meant for the disciples of John the Baptist. John himself said that he baptised with water, but the one who was to follow him (Jesus) would baptise with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). Baptism in Jesus fulfils and ends water baptism. Water Baptism cannot cleanse a person from their sin. Baptism in the Holy Spirit can and does!


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[Carryon]

Found this interesting little online Q & A session on a Quaker Meeting website. Thought its interpretation of baptism was interesting -

Q: Do Quakers practise water baptism?
A: No. Jesus baptises his true followers in the Holy Spirit. Water baptism was meant for the disciples of John the Baptist. John himself said that he baptised with water, but the one who was to follow him (Jesus) would baptise with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). Baptism in Jesus fulfils and ends water baptism. Water Baptism cannot cleanse a person from their sin. Baptism in the Holy Spirit can and does!

All man made rituals and rule and as such many not impress the beared guy in the sky one bit. More like pledging a fraternity. You would think people would at least think about them.


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[GenSec]

I have to say, even from a Christian perspective, the ritual of baptism seems rather unneccesary.

American Quakers seem even more critical. Their website complained that Catholics follow not mainly Jesus, but a human-created and influenced organisation. This leads to their errors, apparently. Their organisation is a human-influenced and human created ritualised, not Jesus influenced, church.

I am so glad i wasn't baptised, lol. One of my oldest friends is a total athiest like me, but his father had him baptised Catholic. He hates it. His father is one of those "everyone is a Christian whether they like it or not because we live in a Christian-created country" and he always seeks to prove how all athiests must be Christian. He always gets his son by saying "You're baptised Catholic. You're Christian whether you accept it or not."

One day, he asked me if i was baptised. His father doesn't really like me very much and most of the time we do not talk. He may be Catholic but he is an asshole in many respects (i've found that the two are often not mutually exclusive). He said "Whatever you were baptised makes you what you are, like it or not. What kind of Christianity did your parents chose for you?" I told him i was never baptised. Silence. Stare. Then "Oh well then." Has never spoke to me again, over 6 months later!

If i ever have children, they shall never be baptised.

I feel its for them to decide that matter when they are old enough and in control of their own body and soul, not me.

[Carryon]

To your point, Some religious historians, not theologians, say that some Christian sects, e.g. Catholism, is "about" Jesus and others are "of" him.

[GlimmerOH]

Interesting conversation!

The baptism in water is not the saving baptism at all.  However, I would not call it unnecessary either.  Jesus told His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  The submersion in water is symbolic of leaving your old life behind you, and resurfacing with a fresh, clean slate (rebirth).  Baptisms for infants are an opportunity for parents to renew their own vows of faith before the entire congregation, and to promise to raise the child with the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

It's unfortunate that you felt rejected by this one Priest.  Emails are notorious for being hard to read tone, and this one may have read into your email in a different light than you had meant.

As far as baptizing your daughter yourself, the only requirements for eligibility to baptize are that you have been baptized yourself and there are witnesses to the baptism.  How do I know this?  Because my 11-year old son baptized his 13 year-old cousin two years ago when no one else would...and he had a witness, in a church.  The priest issued a baptismal certificate a year later when he could find no argument against it.

This isn't about which religion is better than the next...it should be about a faith journey--yours.  Each denomination of Christianity is part of the Body of Christ.  Different body parts won't understand the function of the other, but together they fulfill God's Will on earth.

[buzzskill]

Beautifully stated GlimmerOH, thank you.

[GlimmerOH]

You're welcome Buzz.

Any updates?