A serious look at the bin Laden issue.

[GenSec]

I am surprised there were no posts yesterday about the death of Osama bin Laden. Its a major issue on most internet forums of whatever kind.

I have a rather different view of the event, not that i will lose any sleep over this persons death.

However, i maintain that his death is not a major issue of any kind.

Firstly, Laden was no longer a major figure in al-Qaeda. For years he had very much been a nobody.... thats why he merely had 2 other men to defend him in his hideout.
Secondly, Laden is not important as a man. al-Qaeda and similar terrorist groups are created from socio-economic and political circumstances that have yet to be addressed. Laden's death is irrelevant because 1. 100 men are ready to fill his shoes, maybe even 10,000 and 2. it will actually become another contributing factor alongside the existing socio-economic circumstances in recruiting new members for the likes of al-Qaeda. It is these underlying socio-economic and political factors that must be addressed before men like Laden and groups like al-Qaeda can be defeated.

Hence, his death being all over our media these past few days is all PR and hype.

We should also remember - Laden and groups like al-Qaeda and the Mujahadeen are creations of Western governents, in particular the USA. The Soviet "invasion" of Afghanistan in 1979 was a legitimate undertaking because the Afghan government requested this military assistance in putting down these groups. And who was funding, arming and training these groups - and Laden? The USA. All to covertly topple a government the US government did not approve of. A government that was trying to eradicate radical Islam, educate girls and women in schools, and drag Afghanistan into the 20th century. Its problem? Not a US ally. So Laden, al-Qaeda and the Mujahadeen became their allies. And the people of Afghanistan were dragged back into the stone age for decades because of US meddling and interference in order to further their own national interests.

The US invasion of Afghanistan - called a "conflict" - was in fact more illegal than the Soviet "invasion" of 1979. And now it is the USA who seeks to foster on Afghanistan a government of its own chosing. This, by the way, will also help create a new generation of bin Laden's.

And oh, how these terrorist groups turned their radical Islamic ideology on their once- generous allies when the Soviet issue was resolved. The communist bogey was no longer there to keep them together. It really is a tragedy that should never have happened. It has cost the lives of so many, including innocent US civilians who were never part of this unholy alliance gone sour.
 
Hence, the USA created its own monster. It lost control of it and it escaped its leash. I find it quite fitting that it was US special forces that killed Osama bin Laden - because they created him. 

However, i maintain - behind the headlines and hype - his death will achieve absolutely nothing.

[Carryon]

We are too busy celebrating in the streets. The "Yanks" do it again. USA, USA, USA.................USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cuchculan]

Let us just say he is not the only terrorist out there. He was more just a torn in the side of the US Government. But the real terrorists will continue on with their attacks as per normal. I do think he was a figure head. An icon to many in the Islamic world. Extremists that is. The one they could never get. But whilst they were busy chasing him others were planning attacks elsewhere. Come the end of the day he servered the Islamic extremists as a decoy. ' Let them all chase him, whilst we get on with our work '. And he is not the first example of an American backed person to turn his gun on the Americans. The Americans like to help put people in power. Only to see them bite them in the years to follow. But the question everyone is still asking is ' was it really him '. His death came at a good time for Obama. Just when he needed it most of all. They are debating whether or not to show images. All we have is their word on it. Yes they claim they done DNA  tests to prove it. I don't think that cuts it with a lot of people. You will always have your conspiracy theories. From the extreme to the average. Like they had him on ice since 2001. Now that is one extreme theory. Another one was they shot the wrong person. Hence they quickly went to sea, said a few prayers and dumped the body. If Elvis lives on years after his death, you can bet so will Osama.

[GenSec]

Hi cuchculan, i think you are spot on with all of what you say. 

Burial at sea was an odd one.... but i suppose that was maybe to avoid having his body/last resting place becoming a shrine for other Islamic extremist individuals and groups. It did surprise me though when i heard it. Not a disposal method you hear of much these days!

[tinam7]

I was surprised at the silence too, but the input now is just as welcome. The problem that has emerged double time, as I see it, is Pakistan with its nukes.

Even though the US would not grant us visas for years (father was too old), it was what we longed for as we wandered around the world until 1951. It is still the only place on earth I want to be, blemished and imperfect as it is. But I would not go out there acting like a juvenile.

[Carryon]

IBID

[floridaguy65]

Cuch, you said, "If Elvis lives on years after his death, you can bet so will Osama."

Sorry, but Elvis isn't dead. I've seen him in many karaoke bars throughout the years:) He's just layin' low until sequined jumpsuits and fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches make a comeback:)

[floridaguy65]

As I heard a politician recount recently, I'm glad that Bin Laden got to see, before he was eradicated, some Arab nations (and predominately Muslim) begin to peacefully uprise against the entrenched governments that ruled by burdening authority and treachery. I hope it was ingrained in his mind as he died that, overwhelmingly, most people of this world, simply, want to live in Peace and Freedom. Doubtful this entered his demented brain, though, as it was splattered across the room, but one can wish for such things:)

[GenSec]

As I heard a politician recount recently, I'm glad that Bin Laden got to see, before he was eradicated, some Arab nations (and predominately Muslim) begin to peacefully uprise against the entrenched governments that ruled by burdening authority and treachery. I hope it was ingrained in his mind as he died that, overwhelmingly, most people of this world, simply, want to live in Peace and Freedom. Doubtful this entered his demented brain, though, as it was splattered across the room, but one can wish for such things:)

The issue of Arab dictatorships is much more complex than this.

For instance, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are totalitarian dictatorships. However they have solid US support - as did Egypt. Egypt recieved $30 billion of funding - mainly for its oppressive armed forces - from the USA. Hence, the USA was totally complicit in the subjugation of the Egyptian people for decades. It is also complicit in the subjugation of Bahrain and Saudi freedom movements.

Hillary Clinton gave what i considered a disgusting international speech on Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, saying that these nations had a right to police their people and swap military personnel in bilateral agreements that were no one elses business. This was just scandalous. The US Navy's 5th Fleet is based in Saudi Arabia.

On the other hand, we hear alot about the oppressive governments of Iran and Syria. Syria because it has never been a US ally. Iran because it overthrew the dictatoral Shah in 1979 in the Iranian Revolution That brought Khomeni to power. The USA backed the Shah - a brutal dictator condemned by humans rights groups - for years, through funding and international words of support. Again, scandalous.

Once again, imperial power politics complicates an at first glance black and white situation between "freedom" and "authority".

The USA supports democracies that agree with it, and overthrow democracies in favour of dictatorships where it furthers their own national interests - as in Allende's Chile in 1973, where an elected peaceful government was overthrown with substantial covert US support in favour of the blood drenched brutal dictator General Pinochet.

I just wish the honest, peaceful ordinary populations of governments around the world which claim to rule on their behalf could see what is really going on.... because its often ordinary Americans as happened in the September 11th tradgedy that end up paying the price.