anxiety and philosophy

[Psydorian]

Hello there, first let me tell u something about me, i am 21 years old male / student and probably will be the student of generation ( out of 2300 students, GPA 9.85) if i get rid of this vicious circle of irrational thoughts. IKD whether my iq has contributed to this anxiety issues but here it is the problem :
lately i have been wondering about life questions, whats the purpose of everything, how the universe works, and the most problematic question for me was the TIME explanation. we talk and think always in past/ future sentences but our body is in the present. every time i get aware of that i get panic attacks and my mind gets blocked and overloaded with thoughts and i understand that everything we do in present is associated with our subconciosness for ex. we talk and we use our body language using our sub mind and i am aware of that and my body is like going to freeze and become stunned cause that body talk isn't what i was thinking ( actively), and when i do think to move my body after that i am like " how do ui move my body ... i don't know" and i fell like i am going to have nevrous breakdown ... i really don't want to spend my time thinking of those things but its like its getting worse and more and more distracting lately and i even can't focus on studying anymore. lets say talk on the phone and at the same time drive .. i am always focused on only 1 thing and i dont let my sub mind do its job. its like i wanna be the controller of everything. even now i realize that everything i wrote is done and i wonder how am i in the present now and the text is already written ..... ITS SO CONFUSING and its messing with my brain. i don't get hallucinations , delusions and stuff like that , i don't think that i have some neurological problems its just that i can't find explanation for this questions makes me worry and i haven't smiled maybe in a week now ... my focus strenght drops every day and i fell i am loosing my mind and can't function properly PLS tell me how to let things just BE .. i am really scared ..

[Grandma]

Hi psydorian -

Wow, it sounds like you are stuck in an awkward place where universal philosophical questions about the purpose of life and the meaning of time have become entangled with what might or might not be an anxiety disorder!  May I suggest that you separate the two, and tackle them individually?

You are probably wondering if I have even read your post, because you have explained that you don't know how to do that.  I have indeed read your post, and I think that you can indeed do it.

I just googled "philosophy time" and up popped many articles on the subject.  It is one that has attracted philosophers throughout - oh the irony - all time!  Why don't you do some reading?  I think that you will learn how some of the greatest minds have aproached the subject, and that you will begin to formulate your own answers as well.

Also, look closely at your anxiety, apart from your preoccupation with the conundrum of the meaning of time.  If you are able to google health issues without frightening yourself into believing all sorts of terrible thoughts - some of us can, some can't - then why don't you research the anxiety disorders to see which apply to you, and then look into treatment options?

What is happening to you may be along the same principle as mixing ammonia and bleach.  Each is a fairly harmless liquid, excellent for cleaning.  Mixed together, they form a toxic gas.  For you, I suggest that philosophy is a fascinating topic, and anxiety an annoying condition.  Taken separately, neither need encumber you, but mixed together, they are doing you in!

I am interested to know what you think about my theory.

Love, Grandma

[Carryon]

You need to see a psychologist or therapist to dial down your emotional state and outlook. Those existential thoughts are healthy and common and often discussed throughout life, especially among academics and students. That is, afterall, one of the pleasures of  the college experience, a time to think and study wherever your curiosity takes you and toss it around with your peers. Eternal questions do not produce panic and anxiety with balanced people, rather fascination, awe, and a keener interest in those matters and an open  curious mind to last a lifetime.

[fireup66]

I'm writing based on my personal experience with my relatively higher IQ and the great existential dillema.  Don't discredit what i write if my examples don't perfectly match what you're feeling. It's really all the same question in the end.

I know exactly what you're talking about man. Seemingly crazy obsessive philosphical thoughts and ideas on the state that you're alive in and why you're here and whats the purpose and is this all an accident and if you're even really alive or what is life or what is consciousness or maybe what you call consciousness is just you being a biological computer and if there is a soul...etc.

I know exactly what you mean when you say: "but our body is in the present. every time i get aware of that i get panic attacks and my mind gets blocked and overloaded with thoughts and i understand that everything we do in present is associated with our subconciosnes"

You keep thinking and thinking and thinking and you wind yourself up into a panic attack and everything his the fan from there. Anxiety disorder, brain fog, hypochondria, depression, just a complete mental breakdown while trying to figure out this crazy thing we call existence and life.

I was a nihilist when this happened to me. I kept thinking about how irrelevant i was and how life was an accident and how we're all computers working on auto-pilot with no free will...etc until i felt the entire void of the universe crashing down on my head launching me into the chain i described above. The fact that i drank coffee which makes my mind go wild didn't help me either.

What helped me:
1) Understand that you don't know everything. You're 21, you're not even close. Somethings can't be "learned", even with a high IQ. They have to be "felt" and "understood", which takes your entire life.

2) "He who knows patience knows peace". Don't try too hard to find all the answers, because you won't. Again, you have to live through life to understand it, you can't understand life by just sitting down and thinking. You'll drive yourself mad. Its a process you go through, and IT changes YOU in ways YOU can't change YOURSELF.

My grandma lived through WW1 and WW2 in Eastern Russia. I remember when i was little i heard her say "When is death going to come for me. I'm tired of this already. I know it all, I understand it all, all my friends are gone, when is it my turn to go". I didn't understand how on earth she could say that then, and i still can't understand it now. I use that example to remind myself how little i know and understand about life. And i hope that when I'm old and falling apart i can be at peace like she was.

I've come to the realization that this world can't be fully explained through rational thinking. People have been trying since forever and we still have no clue. There are some things that your rational and logical mind just can't grasp, no matter how high your IQ is. Use this block that you've encountered as an opportunity to expand other ways of thinking you may have previously disregarded. Spirituality just as an example.

You're not alone, and the dilemma you're facing is something every intelligent person has faced in his life. And they all found that science, logic, and "rational thinking" only got them so far. Read other views. Read about other people's beliefs. Read about how other people live their lives.

Also, every person has basic needs in life. Socializing, playing, laughing, and sex. You're 21, make sure you take care of your basic needs before you stress yourself out too much thinking about the universe. Your body usually knows what it wants. Listen to it.

[LondonBoy]

It feels as if im reading my own words. Its exactly the same for me. and the answer above is good advice. Do not have delusions of grandeur about IQ. Intelligence is only the apparent ability to absorb information. Some are thinkers, Some are Do-ers. We have high IQ's yes! (myself included) but that is just a human label. Everyone plays a part.

It is a struggle but know the path is to cleanse the mind with fun and laughter. Socialize and feel better then look upon the questions with a balanced mind and you might find your own conclusions. At the moment you are like me, acting on a hyper anxiety driven mind. First tackle the mind, then tackle the question

Just my humble opinion that Ive yet to put into practice

[Louloubeller]

I'd like to just add this:

I have realized that I am unable to think about much of anything when I am in a state of panic without it becoming an enormous issue. Even small things become overwhelming, never mind thoughts of time, consciousness, life and death.

But when I am NOT in a high anxiety state the things that seemed overwhelming no longer are.

I don't know if you have the benefit of a break from your anxiety now & then - I am lucky in that mine comes & goes. But you might find that these philosophical dilemmas are easier to ponder when your anxiety is turned down.

I second everything that Carryon says - especially about seeking help from a therapist or psychologist. If you are in a really bad state of mind you may even need the quick break that some sort of drug can give you...then some tools (CBT) to practice & get you to a better place.

Good luck. Hang in there.

[pauly j]

I avoid this type of subjects matters altogether!  Anything that is related to philosophical thoughts, religion, and politics, I avoid discussing with others!  Everyones thoughts/beliefs differ with these issues.  A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

pauly j 

[abeja_reina_1989]

The meaning of life is something that always freaks me out. Try your best not to get too caught up in it because it can make living everyday life very difficult. Try to live in the moment the best that you can, because it's much easier. I know it's easier said than done though...

[talMV]

OMG- i so feel you!!! I thought i wanted to major in philosophy at one point, but couldn't handle it because i would dwell on all the stuff you are talking about.... I often think about the concept of time and how long "forever" is and how something can have no end and no beginning...and what happens when we die, why we are here, where everything comes from....all of it. Just typing about it is making me a bit anxious. And when i have a panic attack i feel totally out of my body, like i don't know if i exist....and time feels all weird and my i sometimes can't look in the mirror because u get freaked out....anyway, i totally understand what you are talking about and i would LOVE to talk more about it!!

[LondonBoy]

Talk away,

I find it all fascinating as well its strange, even though its the cause of much pain and discomfort its like my mind is just naturally curious and I cant stop asking the questions. The goal for me is to get to a calm and neutral emotional state before I think about things. If im not in that state it sends me crazy! Woke up last night sweating prefusely and its strange, like I wake with the thoughts 'what is this place' what is life, what is time? before im even awake enough to tell you where I am. Its horrible but at the same time fascinating.

I think we all need to learn to switch off 2, thats where the problem lies, I cant switch off so it governs my every day life, which makes no sense because I dont understand it

[Zaelaura]

philosophy, in my opinion, is a human flaw which came into existence with the evolution of self awareness, conscious thought, and social culture.

the problem with philosophy is that it is a non-scientific attempt to answer questions that may have no answer at all - they are questions we can't give falsifiable evidence for, we cannot test for, we cannot even, often, witness to with our flawed perceptions and opinions....

we philosophize because, as human beings, we have the illusion that we make choices - that we have free will - that we make our decisions based on some internal conscious motive or moral compass that exists outside of our biology - when in reality, every 'choice' we make is based on endless biological, mathematical equations and outcomes firing off in our brains. but, because we have this notion, as a species, that we have non-scientific reasons for doing the things we do, that we must also have come to be under the same mechanic - that some motive must exist behind our existence.

when we noticed wind and water and put it under scientific examination, we found how they can be caused, interact, affect, etc - but we don't go through a scientific examination to figure out 'why' the wind blows or 'why' water flows through our planet..... people often have the opinion that those things exist so that we exist... when in reality, we exist because those things existed in the right conditions.... people act like everything is the way it is because we are here, when we have it completely backward. we exist because precisely the correct circumstances for our existence happened to come together. why those things existed or came together?  we can speculate all day and night - but assuming that there had to be a motive to accompany the motion is flawed thinking - that doesn't make it bad thinking or harmful thinking - but causing yourself anxiety just because you want to strain and manipulate your intelligence to cling to philosophical thinking really doesn't do much to help you..


i duno.
i'm an anxious person.
over things i can't control - like the actions of others, or health, or loss of people i care about...
so for me, tackling the current and immediate problems is much more important than being concerned with whether this single species of philosophical animals are right or wrong.

[Carryon]

Perhaps "philosophizing" is a human flaw, but "philosophy" is not. But in your post I submit you are philosophizing.

[Zaelaura]

Philosophy is the practice of attempting to explain anything through reason - which in and of its self can be very useful for every day life - philosophy in regard to the reality of the world outside of human behaviour, however, is relatively useless in comparison to scientific exploration. Yes, that is a personal and flawed philosophy - but from where I stand, it's a much better one than the philosophy that we need philosophy to be happy/productive/successful/etc (or that it can ever be correct or arguable outside of human behaviour).

[Carryon]

Philosophy embraces far more than "reasoning". It can make it easier to understand the paradoxes of life and make wise choices to achieve more happiness and fulfilment. Science and philosophy compliment each other.

[LondonBoy]

By your reasoning then we are just machines, a serious of chemical reactions occuring through pure random events. We do ask why the water flows, if we didnt ask why we wouldnt even have 'science' which in itself is just another theory when u think about it. People talk about science like its fact! Its not fact, numerous theories that were once fact have since been discredited and even Einsteins theory of relativity is beginning to show some holes in the wake of new discoveries and in all likelihood 100 or 1000 years from now we will have some new understanding which will nullify everything that we currently think. Science is just another way of trying to understand the world around us. Science is based on proving theories through disproving. It eliminates factors until it is left with a single factor. And even when it does appear to get it right its still based on human intellect and perception as if we believe we are capable to experience every dimension to this universe. Imagine telling someone 500 years ago about infa-red vision or ultra violet rays or even dark matter! Now imagine what someone 500 years from now will be telling us.

In truth we do not know, there are many anomolies in this universe and many things that science fails to explain just as philosophy and religion do. But each of them present compelling arguments. Its our nature to question and understand, and how exactly is free will an illusion? If you dont believe in free will then you must believe in destiny and that we all walk a predetermined path due to a serious of reactions.

Philosophy is just as valid as science. Science is not fact and should not be preached that way. The only thing we really need to understand is that we do not understand. Evolution of mind and progression involves encompassing all aspects

[Carryon]

L-Boy

Science is not fact but the scientific method produces facts through proof. Gravity is fact, curved space is facts, constant speed of light is fact, absence of simultaneity is fact, geometry and trigonometry are facts, Newtonian physics under certain circumstances is fact, all facts contain a probabilistic element is fact. All have been proven. Philosophy however does not produce facts but is important to attain "knowledge and wisdom". One can live without knowledge and wisdom and the vast majority of people do, but they can't avoid the facts even if they are unaware of them.

What aspects of relativity have been shown to be incorrect?

[LondonBoy]

Not incorrect just there are some flaws that are beginning to show through the advancement of quantum mechanics. Please dont ask me to go any more in depth than this as I do not know, Im trying to get my head round it all myself, but this is the opinion of some of the scientific community.

Yes they are fact in the sense that they are observed to occur. I should phrase my words more carefully but what I meant was they are not a conclusive explanation to some of the events of the universe. They are limited to our perception and no scientific theory is ever 100% conclusive as there is always the possibility of another element or force that we have overlooked or are not able to measure or even perceive that can adjust things. This has been proven time and time again and is the nature of science. Science is a wonderous thing for mankind but the statement that if its not scientifically acknowledged then its not 'real' is ridiculous. The pure nature of science always allow for it to double back on itself and rewrite its rules. Its not 'gospel' as they say.

The discovery of dark matter and dark energy is now forcing scientist to look at theories such as gravity in a different light and now they have a new aspect to the equation. Science is observation, it is not explanation and just because science observes certain occurences does not mean it disproves philosophical theories which hold credit in a universe that in its very nature is mysterious and unpredictable.

Science knows little about the human mind, which is the closest to home we are going to get. It fails to explain the correlation between thought and physical factors. Yet we can delve into the far reaches of space and observe things happening there. We cant even prove that man evolved from ape!

What im trying to say is philosophy has developed over the course of human history and is based on a direct experience of the universe as science is. Philosophy and spirituality, once u look past some of the faces and crazy stories are just as valid interpretations of the universe as science is and hold just as much weight

[Carryon]

How far have you gone in learning advanced mathematics and physics?

[LondonBoy]

As far as my brain has let me at the moment, Im not quoting that i found these flaws, but I understand that quantum mechanics has issues with some of einsteins theories. 'Theories' being the key word here. And both are considered to be ALMOST 'fact' by science. Please educate me if im incorrect as this is just my understanding thus far and am by no means a scientist or an expert in this field, just a human trying to make some sense of this all.

[Zaelaura]

Science is the method of testing and getting results to understand the causes, interactions, and results of the properties of the natural world - science is not flawed - our current knowledge gained from science is flawed. If the scientific method allows us to disprove something we've considered fact, then we advance our understanding and change our perspectives based on the new information we've managed to gain. There is a huge difference between making assumptions based on what we already know (science) and making assumptions based on things that sound good (religion). Yes, as Carryon pointed out, philosophy does a lot to compliment science when it comes to understanding humanity - but it does absolutely nothing to actually provide any insight whatsoever regarding the 'purpose' of our existence or the cause of how we came to be, what causes our instincts, our biological functions, what happens when we cease to be, etc - which seemed, to me, to be the anxiety surrounding the original post. Philosophy and religion do not and cannot successfully give anyone a legitimate 'why'. Science, however, can give testable explanations for 'how'. Philosophy, in my opinion, does no good in helping any person understand the causation behind existence or basic living. It can, for many, help people understand their own personal motives and the motives of society for wanting to survive, wanting families, wanting success, etc - but when it comes to this person's perception of time, biology, movement, etc, focusing on the various philosophies that have been applied to the existing scientific data does not do a lot to help an anxious person feel better or calm. Philosophy has it's beneficial applications - but allowing those concepts to cause stress is a waste of energy and emotion.

You don't get to claim that science is 'preached' and 'false' simply because you don't fully grasp what reality is. Carryon's knowledge of scientific data and research goes far beyond my own, and he and I don't agree on a lot of individual points - but I can respect his perspectives because he chooses to educate himself rather than simply disagreeing because he doesn't like the opinion presented by another.

Theories are logical concepts applied to laws and facts - i.e. - the law of gravitation, that objects of mass attract, is a proven motion - objects of mass on this planet will fall to the earth when dropped, is an observed fact - the concept that objects fall to earth because of the law of gravitation, is a theory. Could we one day manage to advance our knowledge and understanding to find that we are way off, and something other than gravity causes this movement? Sure - but our theory of gravity is a whole lot more justified and understood than claiming that objects fall to earth because a god wants them to or because a person decided to throw the object to the ground... gravity, through science, is a legitimate explanation of how the object reached the ground. Guesses that have not successfully been tested and proven to the best of our ability are called hypothesis. Laws and theories are both, in most cases, equally proven - the difference, in the most simple of terms, is that a law is a universal rule, and theories are explanations of how laws and observed facts interact. Both laws and theories can be proven false once new observations come into play... but that doesn't mean that philosophy and religion can come anywhere near to being considered equal or even competitively accurate in comparison. Claiming that it is ridiculous to say that something isn't real if it can't be scientifically evaluated is just as ridiculous as saying that something is real when there is zero evidence of it being real (i.e. any conclusions what so ever regarding some motive behind *why* human beings came into existence, would have no evidence to be based upon, and would therefore be much more ridiculous than any scientific theory behind *how* human beings came into existence based on our current observations).

[Carryon]

As far as my brain has let me at the moment, Im not quoting that i found these flaws, but I understand that quantum mechanics has issues with some of einsteins theories. 'Theories' being the key word here. And both are considered to be ALMOST 'fact' by science. Please educate me if im incorrect as this is just my understanding thus far and am by no means a scientist or an expert in this field, just a human trying to make some sense of this all.

Without an understanding higher math and physics it is hard to comprehend the ramifications of relativity and quantum mechanics. Nothing about quantum mechanics alters general and special relativity. It adds a certain amount of uncertainty to all calculations of space and time whether relativity is considered or not. That uncertainty is inconsequential for most of us but a fact within physics that is essential for a full understanding of what we observe and measure. Gravity is not a theory. Nor is general and special relativity. But like "the theory of evolution", which has been proven many times, the popularized term "theory" of , e.g. relativity, stuck as convenient jargon. Relativity has been confirmed by observation.

[LondonBoy]

Why are you trying to turn this into a brain busting argument filled with long words. Science is simple, I mean its a complex subject but its simplifies things so we can understand. Im not trying to engage in academic debate either.

I'm simply saying science does not offer answers to everything in the universe (yet) and there are many forces at work that science and us cannot grasp so therefore to state that science is the only truth is not correct. Many scientists have argued the point that we could have a grand designer (god) and many the opposite. Therefore religion in its essence is not to be null and void. Forget the storyline, im just talking about the essence of faith and philosophy. All im saying is science does and can not explain it all and there are many anomolies that science cannot understand, so until we can understand then faith and philosophy still hold some merit.

I agree to disagree with you, i know nothing of advanced maths so lets keep it in simple terms here. Im not saying gravity is theory, it obviously occurs but science cannot answer 'why' to these questions as it is just observation based and until we all know all the factors (if we ever do) that are involved in the universe then science wont ever be able to be concrete and fool proof

[Zaelaura]

Your argument makes no sense tho.

What logic or benefit is there, for anyone, to make up answers for questions we don't have answers for yet??? What the hell kind of a purpose does that serve ANYONE? I don't have enough information to know, yet, where I came from. Soooooooo I'm going to say that a giant sea turtle with wings and a purple crown, one day, cut off one of his toenails and spat onto it. Then he squashed it up into a tiny ball. Then he flicked it off into a fire. Now we all live on this huge 0104 toenail that is gradually floating toward a big firey ember and will one day poof out of existance in a blaze of pain and suffering.

Any evidence for it? Nope. But I don't know 'yet' what really happened. So I'm going to argue for the sea turtle toenail. Because it makes my day go just a little bit better.

I'm sorry.

I don't really think I can just agree to disagree with you without pointing out how absurd your argument sounds... the better option, in my opinion, is to admit: we have no clue. So lets keep testing and looking till we have a solid idea instead of making 000012 up. You can't exclude the story from the faith, because without a story, there is nothing to put faith in... you either know that that something is probable (i.e. The sun will probably rise tomorrow because the sun has risen every day of my life), or you don't know that something is probable (i.e. I don't know that there is a God because there is zero evidence that one has ever existed). You can have faith in something which is not probable (i.e. I don't know there is a God, but I choose to believe in one). You can't have faith (a belief or trust) in something without a story of what that something is.

It is not the intent of scientists to determine 'why' - only 'how'. The reason they don't attempt to answer 'why' is because why can only be speculated with a direct observation - something we cannot do in relation to any purpose/intent/motive behind our biology or planet or any other non-conscious system.

[Carryon]

Why are you trying to turn this into a brain busting argument filled with long words. Science is simple, I mean its a complex subject but its simplifies things so we can understand. Im not trying to engage in academic debate either.

I'm simply saying science does not offer answers to everything in the universe (yet) and there are many forces at work that science and us cannot grasp so therefore to state that science is the only truth is not correct. Many scientists have argued the point that we could have a grand designer (god) and many the opposite. Therefore religion in its essence is not to be null and void. Forget the storyline, im just talking about the essence of faith and philosophy. All im saying is science does and can not explain it all and there are many anomolies that science cannot understand, so until we can understand then faith and philosophy still hold some merit.

I agree to disagree with you, i know nothing of advanced maths so lets keep it in simple terms here. Im not saying gravity is theory, it obviously occurs but science cannot answer 'why' to these questions as it is just observation based and until we all know all the factors (if we ever do) that are involved in the universe then science wont ever be able to be concrete and fool proof

You are not disagreeing; you are refusing to think, which is what religion does to find answers to complex problems that faith and the bible cannot answer. There are no reptutable scientists who argue for intelligent design (a Federal Court concluded that). Science does not try to make things simple but explain them, simple or complex. This is why mathematics and physics are tough and too few people study them. A lot of people want it simple when the complex answers do not fit within their preconceived notions of the natural world. Just because you think it should be somple doesn't make it so. 

There is nothing more dangerous than comfortable ignorance combined with determined stupidty. We had that in the dark ages when religious leaders decided what was acceptable knowledge.

[LondonBoy]

No no no then you are misunderstood. Science is logical, its based on 'logic' and is the summary of what we so far understand. All im saying is that science is not the be all and end all and there are many forces (such as power of mind ) that science does not explain.

Religion as a concept is ridiculous if you read it literally (in my opinion). But I am beginning to understand a deeper sense of things regarding the power of mind. Think of it as a placebo if you will, a story getting the mind to a place where it needs to be which in turn has a 'real' effect on our existence.

Maybe i should word myself correctly. I am far from ignorant, but science types who only use their logical brain and cannot accept that there may be other explanations is just as ignorant as a cult leader who pledges you to follow some crazy story for which there is no evidence and proof.