An agnostic who supports religion

[Grandma]

Grandma taps the long-haired dude on the shoulder, says "Red's my buddy - you gotta let him in".  The gates swing open.  Even in heaven, Grandma is a force to be contended with.

[Carryon]

That's "Pacal's Wager", one of the originators of modern statistics, who was suffering from schizophrenia when he said it.

[GenSec]

Thats ok grandma! I'll just explain to Jesus that Carryon, a guy who had 'made it to the top' back on our mortal realm, assured me the whole Heaven and Hell, Jesus and God thing did not exist - its not my fault i just listened to my mortal superiors!! 

Just joking by the way carryon... 

[Carryon]

The creator would be pleased that I used the capabilities with which I was endowed as an individual for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[GenSec]

The creator would be pleased that I used the capabilities with which I was endowed as an individual for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
[/quote]

That depends.... did you step on anybody in your pursuit of them? How many? Lets hope he subscribes to Darwinism in in economics and society then.... although i reckon if he is the loving God everyone talks about, or even one iota of love dwells within him, i wouldn't bet on it....

[GenSec]

Oh i forgot to mention carryon.... my sister is disabled, i am her carer.... so as you can imagine i have quite strong views on the subject myself... if you do change your mind and want to state your own Darwinist-inspired view, please get back to me....

[Carryon]

Humans evolved to what they are by natural selection, created by the creator, which is why it took a schizophrenic mind to espouse a nonexistent wager.

[GenSec]

Humans evolved to what they are by natural selection, created by the creator, which is why it took a schizophrenic mind to espouse a nonexistent wager.[/quote]

Hi carryon,

I thought you didn't believe in a creator?

Why would an all-powerful creator have any need for the imperfect vehicle of natural selection? It has made so many errors in our species - disability, mental illness, homosexuality, schizophrenia fot that matter, etc. Why would an all-power God make such accidents? The difference is that i do not discriminate against them based on Darwinian "natural selection" and - dangerously - come close to justifing their marginalisation in our society.

By the way carryon... i know you don't marginalise them or anything... i just want to point out how dangerous your views could become, they open the door to marginalisation. 
Its all how Hitler and the Nazi's started. And it all seemed innocent enough common sense in the very beginning, to many.

I am sure carryon, like me, that you have looked around you, seen so many problems in our world, in our society... and asked, "how can there be a creator?"

I don't subscribe to Pacal's wager either carryon.

[Carryon]

Creator, from the Declaration of Independence, which together with the Constitution never use god, for whom there is not proof of existence.

Creator could be limited to my parents, who did exist, and that was their endowment.

Concern that the validity of natural selection would support eugenical thinking was an argument behind the Scopes trial.

There are Darwinian aspects to economics, but I never said that natural selection governs economics, and maintain that just as there are a few F and A students an more C and B students in the middle, defining a bell curve, the same is true for success, which mostly depends on beating the odds against unpredictable random events.

In the natural world, unforseen events lead to natural selection.
 

[sixpack]

Basically we don't know there's a god or not.I just had a dream(more of a nightmare) but the thing is in my dream,I'm thinking religion(of any sorts) is good therapy for people who suffered.Ironically I 'suffered' from that nightmare and benefited from this insight.Hooray to religions.

oh Jerome---little did you know your thread would start such a thing.... 

I'm glad you were able to find some solace and insight from your dream and can acknowledge how religion can be beneficial for people and/or you can see some positives.  I find it refreshing, in this day and age,  to be able to see both sides of an argument (be it politics or religion) and not feel threatened or defensive about it all. 

So having said that--it seems the thread has really, really run way off of Jerome's original thread.  If there are political/religious--believers or not--view points that are really to Jerome's point, please post it here.  If, however, it is going to be more about a political/religious debate, it may be better suited to a new thread (realizing that such a topic can get dicey fast  ) OR better yet the PM system.  I'm certainly not trying hush people up, but it is unlikely Jerome intended his thread to morph into a topic about economic systems or natural selection etc..... 

[floridaguy65]

HA:) Funny, Sixpack....I thought the same:) Poor Jerome! I'm glad too you were able to gain some insights...peace to you, Brother!:)

As far as the rest of this thread, I would be interested in seeing it continue for a bit. Maybe you (Sixpack) can move the posts to a new topic? I have to go back and reread all those posts, though, as I need to put on my "thinking cap" when the topic gets so "deep, so I can get my two cents in here and there, perhaps. Regardless, I enjoy reading philosophical differences about many issues...good distraction fom the "crazy" talk all the time...though some might call this particular thread "crazy", as well:) LOL. We talk about how distractions can provide solace from anxiety, on occassion, when we occupy our minds with thoughts OTHER than "man I feel like crap today":) Peace.

[Princein]

It's so strange there just happens to be three Marxists on an anxiety forum.

I thought we were an endangered species. 

[GenSec]

Hi Princein, its always nice and a bit of a surprise to meet a fellow believer! 

Believe me, if some people had their way, we would be an endangered species.... in the world and in this forum.

Can i ask what particular background of leftist politics you come from? Maybe if you PM me if you like! I don't mind, whatever you like. 

Best.
James.

[sixpack]

Red--

this is really Jerome's thread.  If you please, can you guys start a new thread or PM each other to discuss your marxist ideologies.

[GenSec]

Erm, that is what i am doing, asking him to PM me if he wants to discuss it....

I wouldn't set up another thread on this site, please do not worry about that.

[sixpack]

errr--egg on my face.  I didn't see you asked about PMing.

apologizing 

[GenSec]

I am genuinely sorry for basically distorting the subject of your thread, Jerome. I forgot about the original topic and got carried away with my own fun. I apologise.

[Carryon]

Basically we don't know there's a god or not.I just had a dream(more of a nightmare) but the thing is in my dream,I'm thinking religion(of any sorts) is good therapy for people who suffered.Ironically I 'suffered' from that nightmare and benefited from this insight.Hooray to religions.

Are you saying you are cured after one nightmare about religion?