An agnostic who supports religion

[Jerome]

Basically we don't know there's a god or not.I just had a dream(more of a nightmare) but the thing is in my dream,I'm thinking religion(of any sorts) is good therapy for people who suffered.Ironically I 'suffered' from that nightmare and benefited from this insight.Hooray to religions.

[GenSec]

Whether there is a God or now seems to be irrelevant now. If people want to believe in something because it makes them feel good, even if objectively we know and can prove that its false, we let them believe it. I agree, if i person wants to believe in a religion and it does them good then i reserve my own personal (athiest) judgement to my own mind and say nothing. Its their life. Some have described religion as an opiate, it makes believes feel good and they need it due to their own personal circumstances... thats probably quite an apt description.

[Carryon]

The problem with religion is that it is grounded in the past and ignores the future.

All of us are born not believing in a god, let alone a religion.

If it could be proven to believers that their faith is in a powerless being, they would stop believing. There is no proof of his existence; therefore their faith is irrational and less beneficial than accepting truth.

[GenSec]

You say exactly what my own personal view is..... however i will leave this kind of sledgehammer honesty to you. 

[Carryon]

If their faith is unshakable what I say is not threatening.

[GenSec]

I believe, in total honesty, that religious belief is an emotional, irrational belief system that is not even deserving os scientific attention... i'd just ignore it and let those who wish to believe it believe it all day if they wish to... but they should have no political or media influence whatsoever.

[Carryon]

I agree.

But I particularly dislike it when people ask "what you are"? As if your religion characterizes and identifies you. Religion is a learned behavior, nothing more; programing; voluntary.

[GenSec]

Religion always spreads best on the rich fertile soil of ignorance.... that is why in 3rd world countries, religious belief is still strong. Religious organisations exploit this and keep these peoples in a decrepid mental enslavement of the past.
I remember when i was at university, and in the 1960's and 70's the old USSR characterised extreme religious faith as a "mental illness" and the person was incapable of objective reality and so needed hospitalisation and mental help!!! 

Of course, not saying i want that brought here.... just goes to show another extreme on the ideological scale.

[Carryon]

I propose that most "so called believers" would flunk a lie detector test!

[GenSec]

Especially the leaders of many of these smaller evangelical sects... when you watch them on tv you can just tell they are rehearsing an act, you can see the fakery in their face. Money motivates their sermons i reckon more than any love of Christ.

[Carryon]

Monkey see monkey do. For most humans, thinking for themselves is frightening, if they even know how. No one ever lost a nickel betting against the intelligence of the average American (Mencken)

[GenSec]

 

I am guessing we are both not American then......

To be fair, i'm not going to condemn a whole nation though in seriousness! Yeah i am sure we can point at many a lower than average IQ American, but for one of them there are educated Americans and, even, Americans more educated then me. So, i can't just condemn all Americans to be cast away on the island of ignorance. I have met Americans on here who are very switched on.
Here in the UK, there are plenty kicking around with lower than average intelligence, believe me.

[floridaguy65]

Hi there:) I would imagine that most often threads on this forum of religion flame out as they are truly hotbeds of personal beliefs. Peeps are here to gain LESS anxiety, not question their intrinsic values, IMHO:) When you firmly purport to have the knowledge of "what is true" then you leave scant room for the opposing view to want to become involved in your dialogue (this tenet applies to either side of the aisle, as well, of course:). That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinions of how the "enlightened" world believes this or that. It's a fascinating topic to me, as well, capable of eliciting a very lively debate, to say the least.

IMHO, it comes down to faith and acceptance. We have free will to either lay in the hands of the unseen or unknown (a higher power, perhaps), or we can choose the opposite path. What path is right? Or does there even have to be a path to live a "righteous life"? I certainly don't maintain I have the answers...who TRULY does?:)

So, are those who live with religion as a backbone of their lives merely blind, incapable, unwavering followers, as it seems religion is definitively rooted in faith and acceptance as the cornerstones of belief. Faith and acceptance are not tangible, yet they can be overwhelmingly powerful forces in one's life. In my personal experience, solace from anxiety is deeply rooted in faith and acceptance in a power not tangible, as well. There is the component of medicine and therapy that can play a role, too. But, IMHO, the true genesis of finding one's healing path from the mind, body and soul "paralysis" that Anxiety Disorders can bring lies in the, often shielded, area of our minds that are only accessible by such blind faith and unwavering acceptance. Blind faith that I can overcome these unseen forces that anchor me to anxiousness and an unwavering acceptance that my Anxiety Disorder is, indeed, a part of my makeup, but it doesn't have to define my entire being as worthy person. Pretty evocative thinking, perhaps.

My supposition would be that those entangled in Anxiety Disorder(s) might allay their suffering through faith and acceptance of a power unseen, as well. MAYBE "religion is a learned behavior, nothing more; programing; voluntary", as stated. But, my contention is that solace from anxiety is a learned behavior, programming, voluntary...and nothing more. And this is found in, me, seeking my healing path through blind faith and unwavering acceptance as my cornerstones of my "recovery":)

All the above is, of course, kindly written, harbors no malice and is, solely, of my own personal beliefs:) Peace and Feel Well:)

[Carryon]

Tne study of mass delusions and crowd madness informs that most people are wrong most of the time (the bell curve), which is why a few exceed. The road less traveled can make all the difference.

Popular culture and media content are good barometers of the intelligence of the population.

[Carryon]

Sir Thomas Templeton, who was a devote billionare, left money to perform a study on praying to help the sick that found that it not only did not help but those for whom prayers made did slightly worse.

[Grandma]

This thread  - except for floridaguy's post - is really p*****g me off.

Those of you who are arguing that religion is a group delusional opiate, a fanatical force, an escape from reality for the stupid, or whatever, have a very narrow definition of religion.

Religion can be defined as the spiritual belief system by which we live our lives.  It does not have to include a deity.  I am a Unitarian Universalist.  I absolutely do not want to see this thread become an argument of "my faith is better than your faith" but perhaps if you check out this mainstream religious denomination you will broaden your mindset somewhat.  UUism does not provide answers - it helps us formulate questions.

I personally have a deep and abiding faith in God, and I defy anyone to accuse me of being  opiated, stupid, or sheeplike.  Faith is defined as belief without proof and that is exactly what I feel.

My God - and again, not to start a debate, just to share my feeling - is not a being, and certainly not a being who rewards and punishes based on some human-made scale of worthiness.  My God is simply a natural force who is greater than me, who does not tell me what to do or not to do, who does not punish me if I don't pray hard enough or for the right things.

My God is there to comfort me in His strength, to hold me in His (figurative) arms, to assure me that I am loved without end or conditions, and to assure me that I am strong.

I see a reference to the bell curve in the thread.  My tested IQ falls on the very very almost end of the far right of the curve, so I am clearly not stupid.  I have been a non conformist eccentric all my life so I definitely do not have a group mentality.  I insist on experiencing life in its full range of feelings from agony to ecstasy, so I will never seek to be opiated.  My logic is impeccable, so I cannot be considered irrational.  If I missed any of the judgmental adjectives applied to those of us who call ourselves religious, I'm sure I can prove them wrong as well.

Just saying..................

[GenSec]

I do not wish to steer what i have said into a "i am smarter than you" thread.

I merely stated my opinions on this thread. You will see that i have debared with nobody, i was merely sharing opions with another member because they were almost the same as my own.

If i were someone on here screaming about how great God is, how he gives me life purpose, that would be ok i guess, maybe even applauded. Because i have an opposite view, others are always allowed to portray it like i am rocking the boat or something. I am sorry, but i was sharing a discussion with a fellow athiest, and i regret nothing that i have said. I have debated with nobody, and will not do so now Grandma.

I'm happy to let anyone go away believing whatever they want. For instance, if my neighbour wants to believe he has a pink coloured invisible best friend that helps him deal with his anxiety, brilliant, he can go on his merry way. Not my life nor any of my interest.

And actually, i did not come up with the term "opiate" to describe religious faith, nor did i actually state that was my own view... i said SOME people hold that view... it was actually a philosopher who came up with the word and the theory, not me.

[GenSec]

Hi carryon, as a Marxist and former Communist, i have to say that i cannot share your view regarding the Bell Curve nor why only a few people succeed. People's mind is shaped by the external, societal conditions they live in. I do not believe people are just naturally 'dumb' nor do i believe that we only have a few intelligent people in the world.

I would like to see a day that we live in a society with totally free access to education which is given to all, which all can enjoy, and all can find an outlet for their individual abilities. I cannot share the pessimistic view that the majority of the human race is consigned to watching the likes of that tripe Glee and managing to keep up with its plotline is all they will ever achieve. Personally as individuals and as a society i think we are all capable of a hell of alot more than we currently do now.

[Grandma]

Red - I know that you were not debating.  That isn't what I meant at all.  I just wanted to make sure that by expressing my specific religious beliefs I wasn't inviting others who also have religious beliefs to start a debate with me.

It was Karl Marx, wasn't it, who said that religion is the opiate of the people?

[GenSec]

No problem, grandma. 

Yeah, it was Marx.

I've said my opinions on this topic, so i will just leave it alone now.

[Carryon]

RS:

Your are describing the way you'd like the world to be; I am describing what it is. There are few generals and many privates.  Everyone can get ahead but few do.

I did not concoct the bell curve. It is mathematical observation of randomness, which governs our lives over long periods of time.

You may recall that Darwin's natural selection was opposed because it showed that nature is harsh and unfair, contradicting devine inspiration.

[GenSec]

No, carryon - i am describing the way the world COULD be, you are describing the world as it CURRENTLY IS. You must be able to see beyond our present historical epoch. Change has always occured in human societal development and will continue to do so. We are not the same as we were in 1400, no?

Darwins natural selection is applicable to ANIMAL SPECIES, not human society.... we are a highly social animal and we are NOT NATURALLY in competition with each other. Our bourgeois society does that. Darwin should not be applied to human individuals. We are a caring, sharing, loving animal, not selfish greedy ingrates as capitalism would want us to believe.

[Grandma]

Again - not to promote my beliefs - just to share a story from my life.

My grandfather, who had to leave school in the seventh grade to help support his family but was perhaps the most well-read person I have ever known, was a life long atheist, with carefully thought out and clearly articulated intellectual arguments.  In his later years, his atheism became dogmatic and argumentative, but so did some of his other beliefs.

He died at age 78.  In his last year of life, he attended a service at my Unitarian Universalist church on the occasion of the dedication ceremony of my daughter Marie, his first grandchild and the only one he would live to see.

The next week he went to the public library and spent an afternoon in the research section.  Then he called me long distance, which was still a kind of special occasion thing for my grandparents, to tell me that if he had found UUism in his early years, he would have become a life long member.  He was still a dogmatic and argumentative atheist, but he would have fit right in at any UU congregation.

[GenSec]

So, private wealth has nothing to fo with a person's life chances, how they "get on" in our society???

[Grandma]

Red -

I wish you could meet my son Morgan.  His explanation for everything that is wrong in the world: stupid people and capitalism!