Fear of Going Insane

[Godfrey]

This is a common one, but I didn't find a direct topic about it in this section.  I suppose a lot of things fall under this heading, and I felt like starting a discussion about it more directly than in my recent GAD post.

But yes, I have a fear of going insane.  I have been feeling wonderful and even physically great the past few days, to be honest.  I started CBT and in my case it was exactly what I had needed.  Most of my normally anxious thoughts etc haven't bothered me, but this one still does, for some reason.  In fact I think it bothers me precisely because nothing else really is.  I'm not sure I can even consider myself a hypochondriac at the moment aside from this.

I am fairly certain it started because of a close friendship I had with a schizophrenic person who seemed completely normal...Most of the time.  I have sought therapy in the past, to various degrees.  Unfortunately it amounted to being warned that if I didn't beat this I would actually go insane, as well as being given in-depth details on different forms of insanity and occasionally Freudian psychology about how my fears must mean I'm repressing urges.  This was exactly the wrong thing to do, as it just made me worry about it more.  I worry that I'll suddenly become super-paranoid, or that I'll start to see and hear things that aren't there, or that I'm feeling better solely because I'm actually stepping closer to insanity, and that my "crazier" thoughts are really crazy.  Hell, I still feel a little detached from things, good or not, and I'm still a loner.

One of my chosen jobs is that of comedian.  Another is that I am a sci-fi writer who occasionally uses horror elements. You may see why being worried about having weird thoughts is a detriment to my work.

I realize none of this makes sense.  I probably feel detached because it's not like I'm going to suddenly be completely better and it's not absurd to have depersonalization still, I probably just need my quiet time as well as my social time, everyone gets weird thoughts, and I have never ever heard or seen something that wasn't there except when my brain registered something incorrectly for a brief moment.

Anyone have any advice, or would like to share their own experiences with this?  Or has anyone tried something that works?  I suspect if I keep using CBT it'll eventually lessen (and it is far LESS scary) like all the others, but still.

[eduk8or]

Godfrey,

I don't have much good advice to give, but just wanted to let you know that I can completely relate.  My biggest fear always has been and continues to be that I will go insane, have to be committed to a psychiatric hospital, lose my kids, my job, my house, etc.  I call myself a mental health hypochondriac because for me, death is much less frightening for some reason than going crazy.  I have googled ad nauseum the symptoms of schizophrenia and bipolar and psychosis and of course always feel like I have at least part of the symptoms after I do that.  So far, it has all just been anxiety and I have not lost it.  I think for me, the sense of not having control is what propagates the issue.  I don't feel like a control freak, but because this is definitely an area I have no control over, it makes me anxious.  Anyway, you are not alone in these feelings...

[Godfrey]

I can definitely relate to that. I fortunately managed to stop googling a while ago, though I still get exposed to them occasionally.  Plus I have to take a psychology class at the moment XP!

Part of my problem at the moment is analyzing previous times in my life when I've felt anxiety, hypochondria, or obsessive over things.  I'm not, of course, intentionally doing it, but my brain is so used to it by now that it's hard not to even though I no longer have any reason to XP  The funny part is, by my standards...Er...EVERY geeky or artistic person would be completely insane.  As well as any person in love.  Which is...Ridiculous. 

The fact that I'm starting to be able to see the absurdity and humor in my problems is probably a good sign though, I think.

[Conspiracy Bird]

I can partially relate. I'm often afraid of losing control over myself (control is a major issue for me when it comes to anxiety), so I am afraid that I'll go insane and no longer be able to control myself, but mainly because of the whole control thing.

[Godfrey]

*nod nod*  Yeah, it's sort of similar here.  I think that's true of a lot of anxiety sufferers.

For that matter recall someone once telling me that anxiety disorders are, in a way, a form of being TOO sane.  While this is arguable and not totally true of everyone, it is strangely comforting.

[Albedo82]

You're not going insane. Crazy people don't know that they are crazy.

[eduk8or]

Albedo,

Sorry, not necessarily true.  I've read a book written by a bipolar doctor and when she would have her manic episodes and become psychotic, she couldn't help herself at the time, but afterwards, definitely knew she was "crazy".  Also, I know a person with schizophrenia who knows that his paranoid thoughts aren't reality and works with CBT to view them a different way.  He knows these thoughts are "crazy", but can't stop himself from having them.  A lot of crazy people do know they are crazy and can see/feel it coming.  Only the very extreme cases of institutionalized crazy people do not know that they are crazy.

[Godfrey]

Indeed, eduk8or is right.  I have a schizophrenic friend who is completely aware of it.  There ARE of course also plenty of crazy people who don't know they're crazy, but still.  And then there's the argument that everyone is crazy in some way XP

That said that is also, arguably, a kind of relief for those of us who fear becoming insane...I think it means it's far, far, far less likely than it may seem.  It seems, for the most part, like insanity is an "outside" problem, and if you're not insane it's not hugely likely you're going to suddenly GO insane, no matter how much we may want to think we are!   

We may be afraid of strange things, we may have "obsessive" thoughts, yes...But mental disorders or not, that's not really 'insanity'.  Hell, we can get it under control one way or another, and medication doesn't always have to be involved.

[oldgraymare]

I think it is dangerous to post that "crazy people know they're crazy" as I don't think that is entirely accurate and could really set off someone's anxiety.  I don't think a schizophrenic's first reaction when they have a hallucination is "Oh hey, that doesn't seen right, must be ole schizophrenia again."  No doubt their first reaction is that to them, what they are seeing, hearing, etc, is very real.  It takes someone else to tell them or remind them that "Hey buddy, thats not actually happening.  Remember, you have schizophrenia?" and even THAT can take some convincing for them to believe it for as I understand it a schizophrenic becomes very upset if someone suggests that what they are hallucinating isn't real.  I think it is very rare that they have the mental ability to recognize on their own that what they are seeing isn't real, otherwise it would be a much easier mental illness to control.  Just as educ8tor said, the woman with bipolar couldnt help herself during her periods of mania.  This was no doubt because whilst in that state, her behaviour didnt seem unusual to her.  She didn't have the mental capacity to see that what she was doing was inappropriate or abnormal until she came out of that state and looked back on it.  Your schizophrenic friend NOW knows his thoughts are only paranoia because he has a therapist who has pointed it out to him and helped him recognize that, I doubt he came to that conclusion on his own.
To Godfrey, it is a common anxiety, I suffer with it as my anxiety in the past two years recently got very bad.  Just remind yourself first of all that as a schizophrenic, you aren't going to question whether something you see is real or not.  There will  be no doubt in your mind that it IS real.  You wont be worried or concerned over whether or not it is happening or exists, you will be worried over what you are hallucinating is it going to hurt you, why is it telling you bad things, so on and so forth.

[Noon123]

I definitely feel the same. I can sit for ages and wonder when im going to lose my mind...

[StarHunter]

You're not going insane. Crazy people don't know that they are crazy.

Very few people are "crazy" all the time - they have periods of wellness that can stretch for years at a time and then have "episodes" of psychosis.  When they are "well" they are usually very aware of their illness and very much able to know that their brains sometimes don't function as they are supposed to. 

A person with a severe mood/mental disorder deserves some credit and respect for their efforts to behave rationally while living in a completely irrational world.  Nothing could be more of a struggle and it will probably surprise a lot of people if they know just how "aware" the person with schizophrenia is of their illness.  Maybe they would be luckier if they did live with the wool pulled over their eyes. 

I have suffered from psychosis (post-natel psychosis) and can say that while it did happen rapidly I wasn't completely blind-sided by it.  I could feel the "descent" into hell long before I completely lost touch with reality.  I didn't wake up one morning with full-blown psychosis!  I remember second guessing my thoughts and feelings a lot at first and knowing that what I was experiencing (delusions, auditory hallucinations) were not signs of a healthy mind.  Maybe if there wasn't such a stigma attached to severe mental illness then more people would get help as soon as they notice the very first signs? 

I don't want to "go crazy" but it's not my biggest fear.  As said before most people with a psychotic disorder can (with medical care and therapy) become fairly high functioning between episodes.  I haven't had a psychotic episode since my first daughter was born 8 years ago. What needs to be remembered also is that those scary, crazy who totally lose control and who hurt or kill lots of people due to their paranoid delusions also usually have an additional personality disorder.  They don't have that switch that tells them not to break the law or hurt people.  Most people with schizophrenia do NOT hurt others despite what their delusions/voices are telling them. 

If you were crazy then believe me you would be institutionalized by now - craziness is not something you could hide!  My own psychosis was flaming obvious - Joe Blow down the street could see I was psychotic! It took 2 minutes for Acute Mental Health to have me in a bed getting an injection.....

If you start noticing ANYTHING that makes you think you are deviating from rationality (and there are usually signs - you don't go from sane to psychotic instantly) then seek help straight away and there is no reason why you have to actually descend into psychosis! 

Unless you are a heavy drug user than you would probably have had your first "episode" by now if you were schizophrenic or have bipolar with psychosis. It usually hits in the late teens/early 20's for the first time.  And I am assuming that with a name like Godfrey you are not intending on getting pregnant and giving birth so PNP is not likely in your case    That leaves "Severe Depression with psychosis" which is unlikely unless you have suffered debilitating depression without effective treatment for a while..... 

[oldgraymare]

So StarHunter, when you first began having auditory hallucinations, you realized they were hallucinations?  Your first reaction upon having the first one was "That wasn't normal, something must be wrong with my brain."?

[StarHunter]

So StarHunter, when you first began having auditory hallucinations, you realized they were hallucinations?  Your first reaction upon having the first one was "That wasn't normal, something must be wrong with my brain."?

My hallucinations came along after the delusions so by that time I was fairly well caught up in the psychosis.  Without discussing my actual delusions (as they are private and I am not ready to discuss them) I will say that when I started having them I did know/sense that they were not "healthy".  I knew what I was "supposed" to feel/think about my daughter but after she came out of me my feelings/thoughts about her were not what they were "Supposed" to be.  I did understand that my thoughts were not rational - I didn't tell people about my initial delusions because I knew they were not rational - this is how I managed to descend into the hallucinations.

I never said that the hallucinations/delusions don't seem very real - they do. I said that I knew that my THOUGHTS and FEELINGS were not "normal" nothing about the hallucinations at that point.  I didn't understand that the hallucinations were not real, that is what makes them so scary, but hallucinations do not always occur with no warning signs.  I started experiencing the hallucinations when my daughter was maybe 2 weeks old but the day after she was born I knew something was "wrong" with my mind.  I didn't "feel crazy" because at that time I didn't know what crazy felt like but I certainly knew that my thoughts and feelings were NOT what I was supposed to be feeling.  I wasn't in full-blown psychosis at that time because I was still able to rationalize enough to know that....but those were the early warning signs (ignored by me) and led to even more far out delusions and auditory hallucinations that literally grew into 100's of voices every day. 

I never said that someone experiencing psychosis is fully aware of it - just that in my case (in hindsight) I wasn't blind-sided.  I didn't wake up one morning in full blown psychosis.  By the time I recieved help I was essentially "crazy" and I did believe my new reality 100% my hallucinations were real to me, the delusions were real to me and people telling me otherwise were not believed by me.   I also stated at the beginning of my post that when the person is WELL that they are usually well aware of their illness - psychosis is very rarely a constant fog unless they are recieving NO treatment. 

I have not since gone back into full-blown psychosis since - why?  Despite having 3 more children since and having been hospitalized with my son due to me (and the people around me) noticing the first symptoms when my son was a whole 3 days old.  I never got the hallucinations that time (or since) but I would have if I wasn't very aware of my thoughts. 

Even now when I am severely depressed I get weird idea in my head - such as thinking that people can read my mind and that my (elderly) next door neighbour is spying on me.  When I notice these thoughts I tell my psychiatrist and she usually increases my dose of Zyprexa.

Hope this answers your question in thorough detail and if you have any others then please feel free to ask (but please be respectful of my very difficult time). 

[oldgraymare]

Sorry Star Hunter I do apologize for asking so callously.  I just found it a bit irresponsible, not of you but of previous posters to say, when someone is looking for support and to have their fears allayed and someone tells them something to calm them down, and someone else comes along and basically says "Hold on thats not actually true, ."  I take it personally as someone who suffered with a debilitating fear of going into psychosis or suffering with schizophrenia to the point where I truly believed I must be and I know how it can be devastating to hear misinformation about anything that causes one panic or anxiety (which as we all know the internet is full of).  I was simply trying to explain to the original poster and to anyone else who might read this for support through their own fear that its more complicated then just "crazy people don't know they are crazy" or on the same vein "crazy people actually DO know they are crazy."  I was trying to explain that there is a difference between, say, fear caused by a paranoid delusion (perhaps even though you know it seems out there but still very much believe it must be accurate or happening.  Or am I supposing too much here?), and fear caused by anxiety over having ANY random, paranoid thought and thinking it means you are "crazy".  For instance today I saw someone on the bus and I thought he looked like a stranger I'd seen before and had a passing thought of 'Hmm, I wonder if hes following me."  Does that mean I am coming towards a psychotic break? No, as I didn't TRULY believe that he must be the same person, nor did I TRULY feel in any danger.  Not to mention, memories of that awful period of fear I went through have been on my mind (maybe you saw my own recent post on this forum) so of course those kinds of thoughts would jump out in my anxious mind.  In the end it was nothing more then a random, passing thought.
That being said, it was very insensitive of me to word my question and put it to you the way I did, it did come off accusatory and patronizing.  That tone certainly wasn't directed at you.  I hope you can forgive me.  I am very sorry for what you went through, no one should have to.  I'm glad you are on the other side of it now.

[eduk8or]

oldgraymare,

If you know anything about me or have read any of my previous posts, you know that I am a very compasionate person and would never say anything intentionally to cause anyone any more anxiety.  I am on here a lot offering advice to help people, not hurt them.  That being said, I said that it is not true that "crazy" people do not know they are crazy because sometimes "crazy" people do know that they are crazy.  You did make a distinction between people knowing after they are well that what happened was "crazy" but that in the moment they may not have realized it.  This may be true and I appreciate you making the point.  However, in the book I read (and I apologize because I can't remember the title)  the bi-polar doctor that was writing about her experiences could in fact feel a manic episode coming on and knew that if she didn't get help, she would become psychotic.  She had that awareness.  It also seems that Star Hunter has that awareness.  That is all I meant by my post.  As a person that is constantly analyzing my own thoughts to see if I am going "crazy", I completely understand the anxiety.  I call myself a mental health hypochondriac, and I know exactly where you are coming from.  If anything, it gives me a lot of courage to know that Star Hunter has been where I am afraid of going and has come out of it o.k.

[oldgraymare]

I apologize to you as well then educ8tor.  It was wrong of me to accuse you of being ignorant when really I am just extra-sensitive to the issue.  We're all in the fight together here, I shouldn't have been so quick to judge.

[eduk8or]

I don't want you to feel bad, just know, as you said, we are all in this together and we are here to support each other in any way we can.  I can be extra-sensitive to the issue as well and fo r the longest time couldn't even bear it when people said the word "crazy".  It is definitley a weird thing, anxiety. 

[StarHunter]

OldGreyMare - No problems.  I don't think that any mental illness fits into a box.  I know that what I experienced as part of my illness is not necessarily what the Schizophrenic down the road experiences.  Some may have an awareness and others may not.    Certainly everyone is different and I think it's normal for sensitivies to run high when discussing the subject of severe mental illness.  I am not bothered by questions about my illness - I just also get a bit sensitive when discussing it (and that is my problem) as it is hard to discuss something openly when I am so used to hiding it from society due to judgements from people (in real life and online).                                 

Eduk8tor - I actually feel quite lucky when reading about other people's often debilitating fear of going crazy.  That is one thing I am not constantly anxious about.  Yes, it was hard at the time and I still struggle with the thought that I am at higher risk of psychosis in general but I know that at the end of the day I will be fine.  People often voice the fear of losing everything (kids, husband, house) and I can tell them honestly that it's unlikely to happen.  I have 4 children - I am a good parent - I have a wonderful husband and a beautiful house.  Chances are you won't end up experiencing it firsthand but if you do then just know that people survive it and lots of people are high-functioning with it (like that bi-polar Dr who wrote that book - they are clearly successful).  This is the only place I even really think about my illness - here and my psychs office.  Most of the time I don't even think about it - I am more concerned about my daily anxiety symptoms.  They cause me much more grief! 

[eduk8or]

Thank you Star Hunter.  Sharing your experience has made a world of difference to me and has helped me tremendously.  I am one of those people that worry they will lose their job, kids, house, etc, but your experience has shown me that that is not necessarily true.  It has eased my anxiety somewhat to be able to say "well, if it does happen, I will get treatment and live my life as best I can."  I know you probably don't feel like it, but your story is actually quite an inspiration!