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Author Topic: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....  (Read 12237 times)

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Offline mbenso

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A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« on: July 31, 2010, 01:46:15 PM »
I was on another anxiety forum that is frequented by a neurologist (a lovely lady that's retired and 88 years old!!) and I wrote to her about my MS fears and this is what she wrote back....It makes a lot of sense about MS fears, googling and physical symptoms of anxiety. I thought I'd share it with you....

MS does not have an acute onset such as what you're describing and symptoms appear in a constellation rather than isolated. The reason is that autoimmune processes affect cortical areas of the brain or spinal tissue that are associated with certain aspects of bodily function. In other words, MS does not affect the body directly, but rather portions of the brain/spinal cord that control the body.

The sensation of heat can result from a number of circumstances, not the least of which is nerve compression or significant muscle strain subsequent to trauma, which can last several weeks to a month or more before resolving in some instances. In other words, unseen injury from the fall could produce this type of limited sensory disturbance.

The eye and chin twitch is more likely the result of something call Myokymia and is entirely benign. It most often arises from intense stress or anxiety and can sometimes last several weeks to months in rare instances.

The fatigue associated with MS and quite debilitating and most patients with the disease are relegated to bed rest. It is again important to note that symptoms related to MS occur simultaneously and in the case of relapsing/remitting MS, can alter symptom presentation since any area of the cortices of the brain are vulnerable. Prominent visual disturbances such as central scotoma, or blind spot within the central vision, is quite common among initial symptoms because the optic nerve is affected.

Always remember when reading medical literature on the internet that in order even remotely use such information to consider evaluation or diagnosis, you must possess the requisite medical background in the way of medical education and experience. Physicans undergo an average of 12 years focused medical education and training in order to be competent in practicing medicine. This cannot be made equivalent in any manner whatsoever by simply reading about symptoms on the internet. Medicine and human disease is extremely complex and let when reading such information, it is erroneously thought to be a mere process of making associations between what a patient is experiencing and similarly described clinical signs of certain types of pathology. Remember, 12 years just to be permitted to professionally treat a patient, not counting the life-long experience and training necessary from that point forward to be considered competent.

I guess my point here is that you're falling prey to a genetic predisposition in all humans, wherein the brain will employ reinforcement of internal thoughts and perceptions construed as a danger or risk. In other words, from a more simplistic standpoint, if you see a bad dog and by its posture and signs of aggression, determine it to be a danger, the brain incorporates every single aspect of the experience in the way of sensory feedback and records it so that upon any future encounter, you will be able to detect the risk to your safety far earlier than the original encounter. In terms of what you see, hear, feel touch, taste or even smell, the brain records all of these events and collectively defines it as imminent danger.

The brain, however, is unable to distinguish between a real danger and one that is imagined. Do you understand? So if you experience strange physical manifestations and based upon general information you have been exposed to, your brain automatically records and stores this information together with your reaction to it. If you seek out additional information and it tends to reinforce your belief and assumptions, the brain defines it as a danger. If the matter remains unresolved, you remain on alert because you are creating fear in your mind as though the danger constantly exists. Does that make sense to you?

So in cases where a person believes something dreadful is befalling them, the brain actually responds to increase your preparedness to fend off the danger. By example, if the bad dog charges at you with intent to harm, your body will undergo swift physiological transformation in order to give you the best odds of physically fending off the animal or alternatively running to escape it. Upregulation of the nervous system is a primary part of that response and so all sorts of unfamiliar things begin to happen to the body, which are considered to be normal due to the circumstances facing them.

But in instances where the threat has been created internally by irrational fears that have no basis in fact, in other words pure speculation, the brain still receives the same exact feedback as in the case of our bad dog example and thus, the same physiological changes take place. In these instances, however, there is no immediate threat like in the case of the dog, but rather internal fear. The physical changes taking place are therefore not connected with a fear response, but seem to be immediately paired with symptoms of some type of disease taking place. It is through innate processes and social training that people make the direct association between physical symptoms and physical disease, but in actuality no such link exists at all. People can experience physical symptoms far more frequently that have absolutely no connection to a corresponding disease.

To sum it up, it is fine to seek out medical information on the internet, provided that you don't automatically assume that you have the requisite background and professional training ro properly assess it by comparison to any symptoms you may be experiencing. It simply won't work that way at all.

Secondly, nearly all physical manifestations that a person experiences are benign in nature and extremely common among humans, so to draw a premature conclusion based upon simple fears, you must pause to realize that the only basis for your fear is lack of sufficient knowledge to accurately distinguish between something benign and something pathological or harmful. So if you don't possess the requisites, then you must automatically question your fears regarding the overwhelming odds that you could somehow be correct.

Let's stop here for now. I trust my response has offered you information about yourself that might bring insight where your fears and concerns are of issue. You'll be just fine. Again, describe the fall in as much detail as possible for me and whether other falls have been occuring. Other than that, take a breath and relax.

Best regards,
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Offline ljames103

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 03:07:41 PM »
That's an awesome response you got from her!  I don't necessarily have a fear of MS (mine's more cancer-related), but that information can really help all of us with our fears.  Thank you for posting this.
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Laura

Offline mapshog

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 06:33:26 PM »
I wish there were more doctors like her.  She's really gone into great detail answering your questions to the fullest extent. Thank you for posting this!
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Offline StarHunter

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 05:52:32 AM »
I am impressed with how articulately and thoroughly she went into her response.  What she says makes complete sense and should be embraced by everyone on this forum  :yes:  I wish my own neurologist was willing to discuss things with me regarding my symptoms in the same manner - I am continually getting the brush off with "no you don't have a brain tumour" but without any discussion on what I MIGHT have. 

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Offline benefit

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 06:57:04 AM »
wow, what a great doc! i love this post... maybe we can make it a sticky at the top of this board? im an MS worried too, im trying to recover right now. ive asked 4 docs about it and they all say i dont show any signs of it etc... but you know anxiety, it is hard to reason with
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Offline teeps

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 08:55:06 AM »
a great post. so glad you shared it  it makes a lot of sense in areas besides ms to. please let this doctor know that you shared with us and that it helped us understand a little better.
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 09:42:37 AM »
I was so impressed with her answer as well. I realy do feel like there are angels out there and that she just may be one of them! I feel much better now that I have a response that makes sense with regards to health anxiety!

She basically replied to me in 1 hour and as you can see she really took the time to explain things. I invited her to come to this forum to reply to people's concerns and she said she will consider it but at age 88 and the volunteer work she does in person and online keeps her really busy! Let's keep our fingers crossed!! They don't make doctors like this anymore, you can tell that she really wants to help.


I think it would make a great sticky!
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2010, 09:45:42 AM »
This is her response to my invitation to come to this forum:

Well, I'm fast-approaching 88 years of age and already write to a number of professional and non-professional forums, including my own forum entitled Heart Palpitations Forum, as well as devote some of my time each year to the oncology center at Children's Hospital to spend time with young terminally ill patients.

I'm afraid that I would have little time to take on yet another forum and there are a vast number of them on the internet, all of which could use a logistical referee in the form of an experienced physician.

I'll take a look at the forum, but again it would be difficult to parse out let another portion of my time.

Thank you for bringing the matter to my attention and for your kind comments.

Best regards,
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Offline gridder

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2010, 02:41:13 PM »
Sticky! Sticky!
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 04:25:14 PM »
Dr. Rane just let me know that he was male!! Lol.....I sent him some of your comments to show him how we appreciated his answer, he was being referred to as a "she"..........I told him it was my mistake and that I thought he was female!!...This is what he said:

"Well, I certainly appreciate the kind words and hope to convince them that as a male physician, I can actually do an equally well job as females. :happy0151:"


He runs a heart palpitation forum (belongs to him) so if you suffer from heart related issues just google "Dr. Rane, Heart Palpitations Forum"....
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Offline MomOf4

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 08:24:54 PM »
What a fantastic post. Thank you for sharing.  :yes:
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Offline loveya14

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2010, 08:36:37 PM »
Loved this post
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Online ashcrash85

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 08:40:22 PM »
Great post, and I found the forum, which is soooooo helpful bc I fear heart problems and have palps!
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2010, 09:08:36 PM »
I'm so happy this post has been helpful!!

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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 02:25:19 PM »
Should I repost this as a general HA post and not just for MS?
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Offline Jillian

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 02:32:41 PM »
Any chance you could also write a little blurb about ALS, I feel like I have all the symptoms, twitching appearing all over my body, strange sensation on my tongue, been to a neurologist 18 months ago but symptoms are worse.
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 02:39:19 PM »
Any chance you could also write a little blurb about ALS, I feel like I have all the symptoms, twitching appearing all over my body, strange sensation on my tongue, been to a neurologist 18 months ago but symptoms are worse.

Jillian, this is his response to someone worried about ALS and MND.....I hope it helps!!

Okay, the prospect of motor neuron disease or amytrophic lateral sclerosis would not be consistent with your symptoms. People who first present to the doctor's office rarely report weakness, but rather a recent history of trip and fall accidents, dropping things constantly from their grip and similar experiences. The type of "twitches" observed in these diseases are actually fasciculations and they arise due to a gradual but persistent loss of communication between the nerve and the muscle tissues which they innervate. They can sometimes be observed spontaneously, but more often are elicited through percussion, meaning that striking the skin surface in a certain manner with a reflex hammer will produce a rapid and undulating sequence of the nerves being stimulated but the connectivity with the tissues is incomplete.

There are also two variants of these diseases, one which is termed limb onset and is evidenced by muscle wasting and weakness. The second is bulbar onset, wherein difficulty speaking, swallowing and communicating becomes difficult, followed by muscular signs. If both appear rather simultaneously, it would argue against such a diagnosis. Changes in personality are also common and frequently reported by family members. The main factor to remember with these two diseases is that progression toward a worsening state is universal. There is no period of remission whatsoever.

Multiple Sclerosis also produces very characteristic onset features, some of which you make no mention at all but that do appear among the list of those with the actual disease.

Simply because you have reimbursement in the area of chiropractic does not mean that it constitutes the best avenue to pursue. As a strictly allopathic practitioner, chiropractics remains largely shunned by the general medical community. You will often have to undergo a spinal series of standard x-ray films, wherein they inform you that your spine is out of alignment or that your neck is too straight, or a host of other mechanical abnormalities all of which they can resolve through chiropractic manipulation. You need to be aware that pressing on the joints and causing the release of free carbon dioxide in the joint space, which produces a popping sensation that produces a pleasant sensation, actually does nothing whatsoever to properly "align" your spinal process. There are claims that spinal alignment can treat or cure all types of ailments, but clinical research trials tell an entirely different story. It's analogous to running out of money to have your mechanic look at your car, but having money available for a plumber to examine it instead. A chiropractor is not a physician and they are not trained in allopathic medicine. I can more than speculate, however, that once you've been evaluated by one, they will universally tell you precisely what is wrong and set forth a treatment plan for you.

Stress and anxiety can produce physical manifestations in the absence of actual underlying disease and we term these manifestations somatoform. The entirety of your symptoms can be well explained by the presence of stress or anxiety.

I see nothing among your description at this point that would cause me to consider any of the neurodegenerative diseases you've listed, or alternatively those I know to be within the spectrum with a similar procession.

Best regards,
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Offline sixpack

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 07:03:29 AM »
 due to popular demand it is a sticky   :winking0008:
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Offline hope-girl

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 09:06:57 AM »
 This is great, but my only question is this:
Quote
MS does not have an acute onset such as what you're describing and symptoms appear in a constellation rather than isolated.

I've been told by 4 doctors that MS presents itself with localized symptoms, meaning one area - like just the hand or whatnot. And that it doesn't occur (at onset) in various parts of the body at once. The statement above kind of goes against that (?) Or am I reading it wrong?
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Offline mbenso

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2010, 05:50:19 PM »
This is great, but my only question is this:
Quote
MS does not have an acute onset such as what you're describing and symptoms appear in a constellation rather than isolated.

I've been told by 4 doctors that MS presents itself with localized symptoms, meaning one area - like just the hand or whatnot. And that it doesn't occur (at onset) in various parts of the body at once. The statement above kind of goes against that (?) Or am I reading it wrong?


Hmmm, from what I understood I think he meant that you don't just get one vague symptom but a series of symptoms or a cluster of symptoms e.g, vision problems, balance problems and parasthesia.....Since he's the only neurologist I've spoken to I'm just gonna hafta take his word for it until I see a neurologist in person!  :happy0151:.......

Not sure about localized symptoms, I could ask him.....
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Offline Islander

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 10:07:09 AM »
I wanted to thank you for these two wonderful responses by the doctor. I am happy that they have becom a "sticky". Many people, including myself, certainly can get a lot out of them. Thanks again!  :happy0151:
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Offline snowflake1958

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2010, 06:10:41 PM »
 I belong to another  forum for Menopausel woman and lots of us have Anxiety issues. I loved this post so much i copied and pasted it over there to share with those ladies...makes so much sense to me..i,m always thinking i have some terrible neurological issue even after extensive tests.So very grateful to this Doc for putting me straight
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Offline Xalatimo

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2010, 07:31:56 PM »
This is great, but my only question is this:
Quote
MS does not have an acute onset such as what you're describing and symptoms appear in a constellation rather than isolated.

I've been told by 4 doctors that MS presents itself with localized symptoms, meaning one area - like just the hand or whatnot. And that it doesn't occur (at onset) in various parts of the body at once. The statement above kind of goes against that (?) Or am I reading it wrong?


Hmmm, from what I understood I think he meant that you don't just get one vague symptom but a series of symptoms or a cluster of symptoms e.g, vision problems, balance problems and parasthesia.....Since he's the only neurologist I've spoken to I'm just gonna hafta take his word for it until I see a neurologist in person!  :happy0151:.......

Not sure about localized symptoms, I could ask him.....

From what I understand, MS symptoms usually do start out localized.  However, MS is extremely unpredictable, so you can't really generalize it.  Some people start out with one symptom.  From there, the disease might progress.  Others start out with a few symptoms, such as tingling and blurry vision.  Also, some people are symptom-free for years, while others get attacks every few months or so. 

Avoid researching.  If you feel that you might have it, see a doctor and trust what he/she tells you.  The symptoms are vague and, on paper, resemble the symptoms of anxiety, so you can't self-diagnose.
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Online kes2010

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2010, 07:31:07 PM »
My fears are not specific to MS. But some of the symptoms I have experienced in the last 4 months closely resemble MS. But my primary fear is cancer........although, pretty much any disease scares the patootie out of me!

This has helped to alleviate the MS fear though.....thank you.
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Offline magnumforce2006

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Re: A retired neurologists response to my MS fears....
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2010, 12:03:33 PM »
Mbenso, would you mind posting the original document that you sent the neurologist that she answered?
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