The Biblical Dilemna (Christians)

[Statesman63]

I have always wondered, and more so lately ....Why does God allow terrible things to happen to people who believe in Him? My fear is cancer. I watched my mother suffer & die form it and I can't understand why does God allow mothers to be taken from their children? I have always wondered these things & never found a "safe" place to ask them.

I'm sorry, I didn't first say in my post that I'm sorry about your mother.  The next place is a place free from these trials as the verse from Isaiah says that I quoted.  The bible promises that you will see her one day again if you are both believers in Christ.  Don't fear cancer.  That may be a fear that you may never experience again. 

[Statesman63]

I am a Christian and believe that God will heal me.  I do know that in order to be healed from God we have to believe that we are healed.  This is a problem I consider the hardest.  I lay all my worries/anxiety at his feet, but still when I get one little twinch I am running scared again.  Which in turn leaves me to believe that I am not believing that God is healing me.  I will NEVER turn from God and I know when the time is right..all will be given to me that I ask.  Sometimes HE does things to make us turn back to him.  One of my favorite verses thru this difficult time in my life is this one...

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when HIS glory is revealed.

1 Peter 4:12-13 


God bless you all!  I pray every night for all of us here on this forum. 

Anna

Anna,

You raise a great conundrum that comes up for most Christians suffering with fear: How can I have enough faith that will get me to stop fearing when it is the fear itself that saps the faith that I need?  Well, there is good news to this conundrum.  We just may be trying too hard.  God does not want us to live the Christian life.  In fact, no one can live the Christian life.  There was only one person who successfully lived the Christian life, and that was Jesus, and we are not Him.  Instead of living the Christian life, God wants us to submit ourselves to Christ so that He can live the Christian life through us.  That was why I quoted that great verse in 2 Corinthians 12:9.  But look at verse 7, "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a 0372 of Satan [a demon], to torment me."  Please note that even Paul had a demon that did not leave him.  A demon tormented him, and God allowed it to show Paul something that would make him even stronger.  He prays that this thorn (and for us, our thorn is fear and anxiety) be taken from him.  Note that God does answer his prayer.  God may not answer us with a yes.  But for sure, he will answer us, even if His answer is a no.  He will answer us with what we need to know to be able to keep going.  God's answer to Paul was not a yes to his prayer, but rather a yes to empowering him.  Jesus says, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."  Jesus says to Paul that Paul does not have to struggle and strive to do it himself, but rather if he would submit to the power of Jesus, then Jesus' grace will do it for him.  That is why, Paul says, he rejoices in his weaknesses. 

So please do not mistake Faith for human effort.  Faith is believing that God is who he says he is and will do what he says he'll do.

Look at Galatians 3:1, "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you?  Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.  [2] I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" Of course that is a rhetorical question.  They received the Spirit by believing what they heard.  Verse 3, "Are you so foolish?  After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"  Verse 5, "Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or becasue you believe what you heard?"

This is really deep.  What he is saying is that since obtaining the Spirit was not by human effort, then neither is the rest of Christian living by human effort, including working miracles.  Some people think that if they can quote "Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus" long enough; or, "the blood, the blood, the blood," that that human effort will work a miracle. Or they may pray a certain number of times or do some other rituals.  We are trying too hard.  Much of our anxiety comes from trying too hard.  The Christian life is not by human effort, but by faith in Him that God's grace is suffient for us.  If we put ourselves to death (spiritually) and bring Christ alive within ourselves then He lives through us.  Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ (Paul died.  To be crucified means you died.) and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.  The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."  We are to die so that Christ lives in us.  Put to death your human effort and let Christ live and take over. 

Philippians 3:3 says, "...put no confidnce in the flesh."  We are to put no confidence in the flesh because the flesh wants us to fail: it wants us to fear.  That is what the flesh does.  But we are to put our confidence, not in our fleshly human efforts, but rather, in Christ who does it for us.  Notice the word "no."  Put NO confidence in the flesh.  Don't go out saying, "if only my flesh can muster more faith...if only I can muster more faith..."  That would be putting confidence in the flesh.  Rather, say, "God, I am going, not in my strength, but am putting my confidence in you that you will get me through this day through your power and not my own.

Here are other verses:

2 Corinthians 4:11, "For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body." 

Colosians 1:29, "To this end, I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me."

Colosians 1:11, "...being strengthened with all power according to HIS glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience...."

Psalm 20:7, "Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God."

1 Samuel 17:47, "All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the LORD saves; for the battle is the LORD's..."

Zechariah 4:6b, "'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty."

[abaggett2]

Stateman63..Thank you.  After I read your post, it got me thinking how right you are.  None of us is perfect and never will be.  I am trying really hard and need to just believe and let God handle it.  I think that I want so bad to wake up and all these thoughts are gone, but when the time is right He will show me mercy.  I love this....
God, I am going, not in my strength, but am putting my confidence in you that you will get me through this day through your power and not my own.
I hope you have a wonderful day and am going to read your post A LOT to help me keep myself in the right frame of mind. 
God Bless
Anna

[crazygirl1]

Stateman63---I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to reference Bible verses and explain them all ...like I said earlier I have always had these questions & never had a safe place to ask them...in Church I felt I was expected to have read & understood....
I will be reading your posts over & over again because I feel theres a lot of info there I can use-so thanks again.
 I do understand that we are supposed to trust God, that He will set us free from pain & suffering, but thats just what holds my faith back--I can't understand it, I can't grasp it-the serious amount of pain, fear, physical pain, of things such as cancer...I'll never forget the tears, the look on my mom's face when she began to understand that she wouldn't be there for my wedding, my babies...I was 28 and while I was a grown up-she knew that I'd still need her and it hurt her so to know her youngest daughter would have to face the rest without her mother. Her own sorrow when she learned the cancer had spread to her liver...my grief as I tried to tell her God can bring miracles..she was a Christian but she knew she was dying & there'd be no miracle. The other day I heard about a little boy who recently died of cancer, crying in his mothers arms telling her how much it hurt...I can't understand this-where is God when we're so broken in sorrow? Imagine that mothers pain...imagine that little boys fear..Children can't understand that one day the Lord will raise us up in Him to be together again-can they? Really-we can't take away their fears when they're dying  like this can we? We can tell them that God will take care of them but to a child-....heartbreak, they should be playing with toys..my goodness let me get a hold of myself here. Seriously-the pain I feel about these feels-it hurts so much that it's worse than physical pain I think, almost...I feel it holds my faith back. What does happen when one dies? Are they "asleep in Christ" or do they go right to be with the Lord? Are we allowed to know?
I love this board..thanks to you all...

[BigBuckHunter]

I dont think this is the place to post Biblical point of views. Some people find it irrational and offensive. Just my 2 cents

[crazygirl1]

It's marked " For Christians" if it offends you -you can always go to another thread.

[Statesman63]

Stateman63---I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to reference Bible verses and explain them all ...like I said earlier I have always had these questions & never had a safe place to ask them...in Church I felt I was expected to have read & understood....
I will be reading your posts over & over again because I feel theres a lot of info there I can use-so thanks again.
 I do understand that we are supposed to trust God, that He will set us free from pain & suffering, but thats just what holds my faith back--I can't understand it, I can't grasp it-the serious amount of pain, fear, physical pain, of things such as cancer...I'll never forget the tears, the look on my mom's face when she began to understand that she wouldn't be there for my wedding, my babies...I was 28 and while I was a grown up-she knew that I'd still need her and it hurt her so to know her youngest daughter would have to face the rest without her mother. Her own sorrow when she learned the cancer had spread to her liver...my grief as I tried to tell her God can bring miracles..she was a Christian but she knew she was dying & there'd be no miracle. The other day I heard about a little boy who recently died of cancer, crying in his mothers arms telling her how much it hurt...I can't understand this-where is God when we're so broken in sorrow? Imagine that mothers pain...imagine that little boys fear..Children can't understand that one day the Lord will raise us up in Him to be together again-can they? Really-we can't take away their fears when they're dying  like this can we? We can tell them that God will take care of them but to a child-....heartbreak, they should be playing with toys..my goodness let me get a hold of myself here. Seriously-the pain I feel about these feels-it hurts so much that it's worse than physical pain I think, almost...I feel it holds my faith back. What does happen when one dies? Are they "asleep in Christ" or do they go right to be with the Lord? Are we allowed to know?I love this board..thanks to you all...

To answer your last question, they are not asleep with Christ when they pass.  They are alive with Christ.  Only the body sleeps (or dies).  The spirit inside the body never dies (or sleeps).  When our loved ones pass we see their sleeping body, but if they are a Christian, then 2 Corinthians 5:8 tells us that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  The Christian never dies.  That's good news I hope you can meditate on: that the Christian never dies.  No Christian will even experience their own funeral because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  Jesus said in John 11:26, "and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.  Do you believe this?"  It is an instant transition of consciousness between this life and the next.  There is no inbetween limbo of unconsciousness.  "Never die" means NEVER die.  That is a promise from Jesus.

Death should not consume you. Death is inevitable to us all and we only have the one chance to live life so we should not be consumed with death that we don't know when our appointment date will be.  I hope I took out some of your fears of death.  Let me leave you with an excerpt from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s eulogy speech for the three girls who died in the church bombing.  It is fitting here because he gives great inspiration on death:


"May I now say a word to you, the members of the bereaved families? It is almost impossible to say anything that can console you at this difficult hour and remove the deep clouds of disappointment which are floating in your mental skies. But I hope you can find a little consolation from the universality of this experience. Death comes to every individual. There is an amazing democracy about death. It is not aristocracy for some of the people, but a democracy for all of the people. Kings die and beggars die; rich men and poor men die; old people die and young people die. Death comes to the innocent and it comes to the guilty. Death is the irreducible common denominator of all men.

I hope you can find some consolation from Christianity’s affirmation that death is not the end. Death is not a period that ends the great sentence of life, but a comma that punctuates it to more lofty significance. Death is not a blind alley that leads the human race into a state of nothingness, but an open door which leads man into life eternal. Let this daring faith, this great invincible surmise, be your sustaining power during these trying days. "

Please don't consume your thoughts with death, and open your eyes to the light of this world and life, and live it as God called you to live it.

[Statesman63]

I dont think this is the place to post Biblical point of views. Some people find it irrational and offensive. Just my 2 cents

That's why I qualified it in the title, "Christians."  It may be offensive to a non-Christian, but since they see this is a Christian thread, they are the ones who chose to come here to read.  Evolution and many things are offensive to me, and yet they are freely posted everywhere.  Offensiveness is such a subjective thing. 

[crazygirl1]

ahhhh! again Stateman63-thank you for your time!
So, doens't it say somewhere in the Bible regarding the 2nd coming of Christ that he will raise up the dead to walk with him? as if they didnt go right to be with Him-see what I'm saying? So being Christians my mother and I, when I was getting the news of her passing, she was already with the Lord? Did she then see our grieving?
I know that I shouldnt be consumed with these things, but how do you turn away when you hear of them happening?  How do you stop asking God "why are you allowing such pain??"

[Statesman63]

ahhhh! again Stateman63-thank you for your time!
So, doens't it say somewhere in the Bible regarding the 2nd coming of Christ that he will raise up the dead to walk with him? as if they didnt go right to be with Him-see what I'm saying? So being Christians my mother and I, when I was getting the news of her passing, she was already with the Lord? Did she then see our grieving?
I know that I shouldnt be consumed with these things, but how do you turn away when you hear of them happening?  How do you stop asking God "why are you allowing such pain??"

Well, sort of.  We do go directly to him when we pass, but when he comes back, those who passed in Christ will be with him in the air and Jesus will raise up their dead bodies from the ashes of the ground on Earth.  Their bodies will float up to the sky where they are and join them and unite with them, transforming into new types of bodies.  Then those who are alive on Earth at that time will be raised up to the sky and they too will automatically have their new bodies.  This will also be a time of reunion between the people who are Christians and alive during that time, and their loved ones who were Christian that passed away.  They will be reunited with their loved ones in the sky at that time.  All of this is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. 

So technically it is not the dead he is raising up, but rather their bodies: bones, tissues, skin and organs that he is raising and that will meet the person in the sky who have returned with Jesus.  Please let me know if you would like me to explain this further, and I can do it for you verse by verse.

What I would like to do for you is to post a series that I already wrote out on another forum site about what heaven is like.  It is divided into series, about 5 or 6.  I think if you know what heaven is like then that would help you overcome your fear of death.  The thing is, is that in order to fully understand what heaven is like, you must first understand what hell is like, because oddly enough, as you will see, the two are sort of connected in a strange way.  I wrote that series out too and will post all of them either today or tomorrow.  What I would like you to do is to have your bible opened up in front of you and look up these verses as you go through it so that you can see it for yourself and have a better understanding.  It is too easy to read past these verses if your bible is not opened. 

And about your question about if your mother saw your grieving, that I can't say, for the bible does not express that explicitly.  So this is me speaking not from the bible: I do believe that He has a great cosmic screen for those who are with Him to see their loved ones here on Earth.  But, again, to be clear, that is just me and not from the bible.  I can only give you what the bible says, and if I make inferences beyond it, I make sure that you know it is just an inference from my own opinion and not the bible.  But everything else does suggest that He lets us know what is going down on Earth.  THere is a verse in Revelation where the saints in heaven ask God, "How long will our blood go unavenged?"  They would have to know what was going on down on Earth to be able to ask that question.  Also, God is the creator of the family.  He knows we have loved ones.  And as I mentioned, Thessalonians says that there will be a family reunion in the sky during his second coming.  So my gut tells me he keeps us abreast as to what is going on on Earth when we pass away.

[sixpack]

perhaps statesman you could private message the series to the people who are interested in your views.  While I understand you titled your thread Christians---First and foremost this website is for people with anxiety.  It is not to speak in the absolute terms of your beliefs in God, Jesus and the afterlife.   

[Statesman63]

perhaps statesman you could private message the series to the people who are interested in your views.  While I understand you titled your thread Christians---First and foremost this website is for people with anxiety.  It is not to speak in the absolute terms of your beliefs in God, Jesus and the afterlife.

You are a mod and I respect that.  I will do that, but some people, like the person I was talking to, has a fear of the afterlife.  This website is just for people like that and we share the same faith and to help her, that requires going to the bible to speak of the afterlife to her.  I am not using this site to propagate my Christian views.  I was helping her out with her anxiety.

[Statesman63]

Also sixpack, isn't everyone posting their views on this site?  So what that mine are religious based.  THat wouldn't be fair to exclude my views and I am not off topic with this site either.  If someone fears the afterlife, I have my views that I can answer just as the next person does.  Views are based on the person's experiences and upbringings.  I cannot not be me.  If what I am saying is off topic to this site, then I would understand the censorship. 

[sixpack]

I am pming you.

[crazygirl1]

HI Statesman...I'd like to read yoru series, you can pm me with it if we're still allowed to, I look forward to it. I have my online Bible ready, and I feel my anxiety level is pretty low today. Hmmmm I wonder what could have brought that on...could it be that I've found a place to discuss my fears as well as my beliefs? oh -regarding my HA-my biopsy was fine, guess that helped too LOL

[sixpack]

this thread has changed a bit from the original post.  This folder seems a better fit.

[JustBe]

I always knew sin to be wrong action or wrong thought. So one's wrong thinking could prevent her/him from achieving that which is promised.  When we obsess or worry we are prisoners of our own mind and don't leave it open for a great deal of enlightenment. 

[surfmonkey]

It is not gods will for us to live in pain or despair. He says in Luke "seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will open. Do not bargain with god. Be direct and tell him what you need" that's from the message bible. Now sickness comes from the enemy. With anxietys and such that is a playground for satan to play. He can disrupt your mind, twist it around and bam you have a problem. He will attack and attack until he takes you down! When satan sees his work getting stronger he continues and will not stop until you burn with him. God protects us from our enemy. We read the word and we pray because it feeds our soul and it reassures us. It is gods bread of life and we are stronger when we read it. If you stay in faith and you always trust god he will in fact work. But he works on his time not ours. If you bring his words to him and say "father you promise me that you bring peace. Your word promises me this. Read him the scriptures! And say, I trust you will handle this for me." And trust that he will. God will handle this. Scripture is powerful and its his word and if you back it up he will help you but when he knows its time. He doesn't test us! Never will he test you and never will he create harm and illness for you. Psalm 91 tells us that his protection is always. Walk this out in faith.

[Noahs Mom]

God never promised that life would be easy, but like the song says, he did promise "we'd be held".

If your fear and anxiety were caused by bad deeds that you did, that would be one thing... but Anxiety isn't rational... It's a mental health disorder.
For whatever reason, that is something that you deal with right now in this life.  The purpose of it?  Will we ever know? 

The scripture that saved me -- so much so that the reference is tattoo'd to my ankle, Rom 5:3-5.

I'm not a biblical expert, but I do know that there is a difference from feeling anxious about something and  HAVING anxiety.

[tigerpaw]

I have started a thread in the LOUNGE for Christians to post their thoughts and relate to other Christians.

Join me on our Journey!!

[charlie1]

perhaps statesman you could private message the series to the people who are interested in your views.  While I understand you titled your thread Christians---First and foremost this website is for people with anxiety.  It is not to speak in the absolute terms of your beliefs in God, Jesus and the afterlife.   

I personally don't agree with a thing that statesman63 has said, but I don't see why he can't write whatever he wants, where he wants, because, as someone said earlier in the thread, he did write that it was "for Christians", and if I don't like it then I can move to another thread

[surfmonkey]

This was however posted in the "inspiration place" and personally I think inspiration could be anything to anyone. There's also the lounge where people talk about games and even there dog. I personally think there's nothing wrong with it.I'd say that even if I was atheist