The Biblical Dilemna (Christians)

[Statesman63]

I'm Christian.  And will always be Christian and always have faith in Christ no matter what.  Even if what I see does not look to agree with what God says, I have reconciled it in my heart to believe what God says over what my eyes see.  I know my bible really, really well.  My anxiety basically made me search the scriptures and learn them.  I used to teach adult Sunday school for over 10 years.

But with all of that said, there is a dilemna or a contradiction between my experience and what God writes in His word.  According to His word, peace and a sound mind is promised to the believer.  A life devoid of fear is promised to the believer.  Psalm 85:8 says, "...He promises peace to his people, his saints..."  That is a direct promise.  And sure it goes on to say, "But let them not return to their folly."  But I have repented of my sins.  I have confessed my sins.  And as it stands at this moment, I am not experiencing his promise of peace.

Jesus says in John 14:27, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Jesus says in John 8:12, "I am the light of the world.  Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."  My panic attack disorder is literally, me walking in darkness because it affects my walk when I have an attack.  It makes me uncoordinated and akward for all to see  and scoff at and I can't even help it.

Galatians 5:1, "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.  Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

2 Timothy 1:7, "For God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind (king james) or of self-discipline (AKA self-control)." 

Romans 8:15, "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear."


There are many more "promises" that God has spoken of in his word that really flat out contradict the fears that most people on this site are going through.  I am obliged to believe what God says even over what I am experiencing, but I need help.  So I set this topic for us to discuss (particularly Christians).  How can we reconcile this dilemna in our lives? 

Today I went with 2 Corinthians 12:9 taken to heart, but I had a terrible attack anyways.  It reads, "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."  Here God is saying that He will do it for you through His power and not by our own power.  I know that we Christains are not supposed to rely on our own power.  I have a whole bunch of biblical academic knowledge that I have yet to turn into experiencial application.  Please give me your take on these things. 

[Statesman63]

One thing I also believe is that what I and most people here are suffering with is demonic forces that need to be cast out of us.  Note that the bible calls it a "spirit of fear" in 2 Timothy 1:7.  It is as if there is a spirit or spirits that are evil and has taken hold of our minds.  I know that evil spirits are real.  There are 2 schools of Christian thought.  One says that Christians cannot be possessed by evil spirits because they have the Holy Spirit in them and nothing evil can dwell with something holy and pure.  The other says that Christains can be possessed by evil spirits.  I hold the latter view because there is no where in the bible that says that a Christain cannot be possessed if they are Christian.  And if the Holy Spirit can dwell with our flesh that is still corrupt, then surely He can dwell with evil spirits that are also in us.  This notion that God and Satan cannot be in the same place is not biblical.  Note Job where Satan is found among the holy angels in heaven talking to God.  And note too that since God is omnipresent, even though he does not abide with evil, his presence is even in hell or else he wouldn't be omnipresent.  The bible says that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow even those in hell.  So God is even there.  So the two can coexist in the same space. 

 

[GoogleFiend]

I would strongly disagree with the notion that illness is caused by sin.  I would also strongly argue against the fact that a believer can be possed. 

Please read these articles - they say it so much better than I could!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_all_human_illness_caused_by_sin_in_the_person's_life
http://www.gotquestions.org/christian-demon-possessed.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-esp/esp-demonpossession.html

Blessings & Peace,

Rob.

[Statesman63]

I promise that I will read your articles, but as for sin leading to illness, the biblical answer to that is yes it does, but not necessarily is always the case.  I can leave you with 2 scriptures showing that both are true:

John 5:14 says, "Later Jesus found him (the person he just healed) at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again.  Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you." 

John 9:1-3  "As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.  His discciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"  "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that theh work of God might be displayed in his life."

So there is a direct coorelation to sin and illness, but that is not always the case.  In fact, Isaiah 48:22 says, "There is no peace,' says the Lord, 'for the wicked.'" 

But my point with what I posted was that there is a dilemna biblically with the promise of God's peace and me not experiencing that.  (But I am determined to find His peace.)

[sixpack]

I promise that I will read your articles, but as for sin leading to illness, the biblical answer to that is yes it does, but not necessarily is always the case.  I can leave you with 2 scriptures showing that both are true:
 

everyone has their own beliefs, but I'm with Googlefiend here, I don't agree that sin causes illness.  I also highly doubt demonic possesion has anything to do with anxiety disorders--or that if it exists at all.  I do believe if you feel you are full of sin and have a guilty conscious over choices you are making in your life that it can lead to anxiety.  But I really don't believe God strickens someone with anxiety as punishment for sins.  I just don't.  And I do believe in God--we are raising our children in church and live a good, moral life.  I believe anxiety occurs because of faulty thinking---be it from genetics (nature),  personality, or upbringing/life experiences/nurture.  These things can be worked through.  There may not be a cure per se, but definitely, there are ways to manage it so you can live a happy fulfilled life.

the things you feel when you have a panic/anxiety attack ARE common.  Anxiety manifests itself physically.  You ought to see my list of scary things that really shook me when I was deep in an anxiety pit.   It is scary but you are not literally walking into darkness.  I do think that it is important for people with a strong faith in God to draw on faith.  But remember God helps those who help themselves (trite I know  ).    God gave us choices and strong minds.  He also gave us medicine and therapists.  If you look to the BIBLE for all of your answers and take it all literally, you will find verses that seem contradictory to your situation.  The Bible is full of contradictory verses--- ie--an eye for an eye and then turning the other cheek. 

As I mentioned, everyone has their own beliefs.  Personally, my God doesn't behave in punishing ways.  He is loving and good.  It has never crossed my mind that I have anxiety because of sin.  That is like saying my daughter was born with all her handicaps because of sin.  Or the way people in Biblical times believed blindness or leprosy or any handicap was caused by God's punishment of either the one afflicted or the parents.  People in Biblical times (even in more modern times) who were mentally ill were thought to be possessed.  We know today that there are a multitude of causes of illnesses today---virus', bacteria, genes gone haywire....

[Statesman63]

I really appreciate your response sixpack. But maybe one of my "problems" is that I do take the entire bible literally and look to it for all of my answers.  However, I do not see any contradictions in the bible.  As long as I have been studying it, I realized that there are no contradictions in it.  It is flawless, true, pure and the true Word of God.  I know that over time we like to see the people of the bible as "ancients" that didnt know how things really go "as we do" through our modern technology and medicine, but that's really not true.  Our medicine and technology is great, but we have taken a step backwards as to the root of the problems.  It is demonic spirits that can alter our chemical balance in our brains and sap our serotonin and all the things that goes along with a medical diagnosis.  The doctors can only deal with the symptoms, but God deals with the root cause. 

As far as the "contradiction" you mentioned, I would like to ask that you read this post I made on a different forum in a thread I entitled "Bible Study (Christians)".  There are a few things that I will respond directly to the eye for an eye, and love "contradiction that I'll have to post later, but here is something that explains a lot of "contradictions" of the Old Testament vs. the New Testament:


Great post, and great questions.  There are many things in Leviticus that sound absurd, and that we no longer do.  I hope that I can shed some light on the reason for this.   The answer to your questions is not a short one, and I'll have to separate the issue of slaves as a separate answer and in a separate post.



I do assert that the book of Leviticus is canon, it is God inspired, it is the Word of God, and it is all infallibly accurate.  Its application is what must be explained.  That Leviticus is true is proven when Jesus quotes it.  Pertaining to something else, Jesus said, "If it were not so I would have told you."  So naturally, if Leviticus was not a legit book, Jesus would have told us.  Jesus does quote Leviticus.  He quoted Leviticus 19:18 in Matthew 19:19.  The Old Testament that Jesus and His disciples used was the complete Old Testament that we have today.  Jesus did not express a need to modify it for any errors.  The Apostle Paul quotes Leviticus 18:5 in Galatians 3:12.  So the authenticity of the book was confirmed by Jesus and Paul.  Moses historically is charged with writing the book.



In fact the bible affirms that all scripture is God ordained.  I'm sure you know these scriptures already, but it fits to quote them here:



2 Peter 2:4-"For prophesy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."



2 Timothy 3:16-"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."



Psalm 119:138-"The statutes you have laid down are righteous; they are fully trustworthy.



Psalm 119:160-"All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal."



So we now raise the question about the strange verses presented in Leviticus.  Here I'll present some strange examples that I found:



Leviticus 19:19-"...Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material."



Leviticus 19:27-"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."



Leviticus 19:28-"Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves.  I am the LORD."



And it is not just Leviticus that we can pick on, but we can pick on all of the Law books.



Deuteronomy 22:22-"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.  You must purge the evil from Israel."



How about this one concerning disobedient children:



Deuteronomy 21:18-"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.  They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious.  He will not obey us.  He is a profligate and a drunkard.'  Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.  You must purge the evil from among you.  All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."



And unfortunately, God holds His people to obey every single thing He says.  Deuteronomy 27:28-"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out."     



This shows how holy God is and how much He cannot live with sin.  All of these laws were required for the sole reason to propitiate the wrath of His holiness.



 I submit to you that the entire law is not obsolete and is still required by God.  Please let me explain.



 Matthew 5:17, Jesus says, "Do not think I that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."



All of Moses' commandments are still required.  They have just been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.  In other words, Jesus is continually doing the Law of God for the Christian.  A child does not have to get stoned today, not because that is no longer required by the law, but rather because Jesus now stands in that child's place, and He became the law for that child.  Galatians 3:13 says, "Christ redeemed us form the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."  That curse is found in Deut 21:23.  No one could possibly keep all of God's laws.  That is why all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.  Since one of his laws is to keep them all that means if you are not doing everything in the law, you broke the one that says to keep them all and you broke the one you were negligent for.



Paul gives the purpose of the law: Galatians 3:19-"What, then, was the purpose of the law?  It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."  How would we know what sin is if there was no law to tell us?  How would I know that I'm breaking the speed limit if they did not post the signs on the street?  The law was given to show us our sins.  Christ keeps the law for us.  It was never intended that we keep all the law.  God knew the need to send Jesus before the beginning of the world.



Paul says in Romans 5:20 this need for the law: "The law was added so that the trespass might increase..."  This simply means that without the law we would not know what sin is.  When the law came, man's awareness of his or her sins increased because now they know what is asked of them from God. The verse goes on, "But where sin increased, grace increased all the more."  God's grace (the gift of His Son) overcomes our sins so that the law no longer has a hold on us.



I like Galatians 3:23-"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed." It goes on to say, "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.  Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."



Galatians 2:15-16-"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' [all non-Jews] know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.  So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."



Raises the question: so if Jesus fulfilled the law, how do we know which law to still do today and which is no longer required to do because of Jesus' fulfillment.  There are still (what we would consider) good laws, such as: "Thou shalt not murder." "Do not defraud your neighbor or rob him."  "Do not pervert justice." "Do not seek revenge."  These are all good laws!  How do we pick and choose???   Answer: Here is the basic rule: Whenever there is a law requires us to become clean, know that that law has been fulfilled in Jesus.  So, God in the Old Testament said certain foods are unclean.  In the New Testament, Jesus' death and resurrection made all foods clean, so that law was simply fulfilled through His sacrifice.  The disobedient child who disobeyed his or her parents was unclean so he or she had to die by stoning.  Jesus made us clean through faith in Him.  So Jesus fulfilled the need of punishment.  It was required that the people continually sacrifice animals to God to stay clean, but again, Jesus being the True Sacrifice, keeps this law for us too.



The law was only fulfilled.  It was not abolished.  So wearing tattoos is still a sin.  Disobeying parents, of course is sin.  But the punishment of those sins fell on Jesus Christ if you believe in Him to be your Savior.  We no longer have to die because He died for us.  I hope I explained this well.  Please ask if you have any further questions.

[crazygirl1]

I too am Christian and here's what I believe:

Sin can lead to illness, but I don't think it's God's punishment in every case. He gave us free will, it's up to us to choose NOT to sin. Our illness I don't believe is a choice of course-none of us want this. Maybe this is our "test". We're supposed to trust God always and well-maybe we're not trusting Him fully here.....maybe the promises are meant for after this life, for when we join the Lord in Heaven? Maybe we're just supposed to trust Him and do the best we can and maybe we're to learn lesson from this?

[sixpack]

Statesman

I respect your right to take the Bible literally.  That is your own belief system.  I will not argue with your beliefs as that would be disrespectful & judgmental thing to do.   However I do not take the Bible literally.  I believe God/Jesus speaks metaphorically or as parable more often than not.  It is my opinion that if you believe in the Bible literally (or as you have described) then you will likely always find yourself in this dilemma described in your original post.  I hope you find the answers you are looking for.   For me I look to God for guidance.  That guidance leads me down a very different road than you  and I am happy.

Please realize that religion and God are very personal.  Everyone has his/her own relationship with God.  Some don't believe in God at all, and that is their own right and business.  So, just a head's up this subject can become quite touchy with people.  Please be cognizant of this as you post.

[abaggett2]

I am a Christian and believe that God will heal me.  I do know that in order to be healed from God we have to believe that we are healed.  This is a problem I consider the hardest.  I lay all my worries/anxiety at his feet, but still when I get one little twinch I am running scared again.  Which in turn leaves me to believe that I am not believing that God is healing me.  I will NEVER turn from God and I know when the time is right..all will be given to me that I ask.  Sometimes HE does things to make us turn back to him.  One of my favorite verses thru this difficult time in my life is this one...

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when HIS glory is revealed.

1 Peter 4:12-13 


God bless you all!  I pray every night for all of us here on this forum. 

Anna

[Statesman63]

I am really cognizant of everyone's feelings and beliefs.  Even though I entitled this for Christians, everyone is welcomed to post, it's just that the focus I want in this thread to be Christian.  I kept open a huge post, the Christain Bible study thread that I mentioned in an off topic section of a NBA forum.  I'm respectful of everyone. 

Abaggett, I would like to give you some helpful advice.  THe method you are taking is the right way of going about it.  But there are things that I can give you that will strengthen you in doing it.   Please bear with me.  I have to take a break from this site until at least Wednesday of next week because I have so many exams and tests to take.  Know that our strength comes from God.  It is not by our might, but by his that we prevail.  When we are weak, as Paul says, then we are strong because we have turned over our effort to God and allowed Him to take over and now we can use His strength without us getting in His way.  God bless you.   

[grateful]

This is an interesting post....
All that I can say is that God does not wish ill on is children and ultimately though you may not see it now, You will have the ultimate Peace. I have found Job the most interesting through this although he was Gods chosen his faith was tested far worse than anxiety he lost his family his wealth his respect and became Very ill (I'm sure you know the story) but in the end Job was again blessed here on earth but not to mention his blessings will continue in heaven. I have never felt Christ closer to me than I have through this anxiety and panic and truly felt him carrying me. Have Faith, God is working in your life and you will be rewarded. Infact all of this may even be a blessing.

[sixpack]

I am a Christian too.  Anyone who believes Jesus was the Son of God and was born and died for us and raised up three days later, is a Christian.  However there are huge differences of opinion among Christians.  Just like there are among Muslims and Jews.  Believing that demons are the cause of most anxiety or that anxiety is afflicted on us because of sin are VERY different views than most Christians would have.  So as a Christian, myself, please be careful about what you post.  I'll continue to follow this thread.  Hopefully your exams will go well.

[crazygirl1]

I have always wondered, and more so lately ....Why does God allow terrible things to happen to people who believe in Him? My fear is cancer. I watched my mother suffer & die form it and I can't understand why does God allow mothers to be taken from their children? I have always wondered these things & never found a "safe" place to ask them.

[eduk8or]

I agree wholeheartedly with sixpack.  For me, God is not  punishing or punitive, but  positive and loving.  I also do not believe in the demon thing or that our anxiety is caused by us being possessed by demons.  For many people, thinking that would just cause a ton more anxiety!   For me the Bible is a book of parables and stories meant to guide us in a broader sense.

[grateful]

Crazygirl-
I am so sorry you had to loose your mom that way. The thing is that we can't understand Gods plan he sees the beginning and the end and we only see the right now. The reality is that most of us on this board are afraid of death because we don't understand it and there is uncertainty. However, the bible tells us this life is like a shadow a blink of an eye and our final resting place is perfect with no pain and no fear. I have never felt that I was being punished with Anxiety or any other trial in my life but that God was working in my life and making my faith stronger. Keep the faith!

[crazygirl1]

thanks grateful:) that was nice to read what you said.
I guess I don't really feel it's "punishment" per say, but more so-why does He allow such suffering? I know I'm supposed to believe that He's working in my life, but look around-there are so many awful things, little kids suffering from cancer, little kids losing their parents, watching them suffer, we're supposed to believe this is all to teach us things? My goodness....I wish my faith was stronger, I have always wished that, but I've always had these things in the back of my mind that I wonder about ya know?
Anyway..it's just hard I guess...my anxiety level is a tad bit lower today than yesterday only because I'm telling myself I DO NOT have skin cancer over & over again, telling myself it's my anxiety that WANTS me to think I'm sick when I'm not....

[grateful]

Crazygirl-
Just out of curiosity did your anxiety start after the passing of your mother? Mine started when I was 9 after watching my uncle die from brain cancer.
I wish I had a better answer for you as to why people have to suffer but I don't because like I said we are not suppose to understand. God DID NOT promise earth to be paradise but rather a place of some hardship along with some joy. I personally believe that hardship makes us look to him and grows are faith in him. He did however promise that heaven would be a perfect paradise.

Food for thought- when you were transitioning in your mothers womb getting ready to enter the world you had no concept of this life you are in now for the 9 months u were there and thus now can't remember that time. So it is that we have no concept of our next journey now in this brief time. So, we can only live in faith.

[crazygirl1]

Love the food for thought, I know it is true but I just don't know how to live that way.
Well my helath anxiety started early-I was alwasys afraid of having this or that deadly disease. My mom was sick when I was little but that was before her cancer. My health anxiety seemed to have waned a bit...then she dies 10 years ago & in the last few months I find myself reliving it all over again. Things I should have said or done for her, feeling again the shocking disbelief & heartbreak of the phone call that gave me the news..the feeling of...being too late, it's over, no more chance to tell her how much I loved her...scuse me while i get a tissue. I must say also that in the last 4 years I've gone thru hard job issues-lost my job 3 times due to teh credit crash, ahd to find a new career...that was stressful too. Now though in the most recent months it's like I'm SURE I will or do have cancer & it's waaaay too much to imagine how people do it-stikll take care of their babies while planning their death...to make matters worse-I just visited the skin cancer forums where I saw that the shave biopsy methos isnt alwasy good for skin cancer. This is what I just had done for my mole Wed. So now I'm SURE it's skin cancer & on top of that I feel I have to plan which kind of dr. to see next and how will they handle the fact that I had the wrong kind of biopsy done??? If my faith were stronger would I suffer these worrie I wonder...
thank you so much for your thoughts & kind words, thanks for "listening"

[sixpack]

crazygirl

If my faith were stronger would I suffer these worrie I wonder...
 

you could beat yourself up all day pondering this question.  And after you were good and beaten up, you still wouldn't have that answer and you would feel worse. 

Don't beat yourself up over if you have enough faith.  Remember God has provided us with many avenues to work through anxiety.  He knows we need help and there are the tools on this earth to help you.  To me having faith is being strong enough to reach out for those tools.

[Conspiracy Bird]

To me, the reason we are able to have anxiety disorders or accidents or any kind of suffering is the fact that we were given our free will. If we were not able to suffer, we would not learn from it, and we would also not have our free will. Don't lose your faith because you are suffering.

[markidee]

Card carrying follower of Christ himself. "Love him though I do not see him."

Anecdote: I was running tonight in the Palermo district of Buenos Aires, and meditating on the verse "He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world."

I suffered for 12 years without medication--"there is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out all fear." Pastors and parents agreed that the eternal word of God was enough. 

This is what happened: I became sicker; I lost my mind 3 times; I became suicidal; I tried self-mortification; I had thoughts of the here-beyond that cycled into pits deeper than any described in the psalms (black holes, horrific images, sickening aberrations of mind are some ).

I started to take medicine and the following happened: I finished college and gave the baccalaureate address; I tried to change an Episcopal church as college and youth director and failed; I got married; I lost my mind with too much alcohol and vallium and went to a detox inpatient program in Hollywood for 4 days; I taught for two years in Colombia (had one 3 day stint in a Latin American psych ward--met people, tried to spread light of love, traded a watch for a soccer jersey with a convicted murderer); I currently teach English and Journalism to international high-schoolers in Brazil.

In Colossians I'm reminded that "in him" (even the atoms in the pills I swallow each day) "all things hold together." Today I swallowed 4 pills and 20 drops of liquid Clonopin.

In short, it's taken me a long time to realize that "daily bread" is metaphorical. Christ's parables are mystical and endless, and understood like endless and everlasting seeds on our heart.

"May the peace of God, which transcends all understand guard your harts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways."

In Him
--m

[Bama21]

I'm Christian.  And will always be Christian and always have faith in Christ no matter what.  Even if what I see does not look to agree with what God says, I have reconciled it in my heart to believe what God says over what my eyes see.  I know my bible really, really well.  My anxiety basically made me search the scriptures and learn them.  I used to teach adult Sunday school for over 10 years.

But with all of that said, there is a dilemna or a contradiction between my experience and what God writes in His word.  According to His word, peace and a sound mind is promised to the believer.  A life devoid of fear is promised to the believer.  Psalm 85:8 says, "...He promises peace to his people, his saints..."  That is a direct promise.  And sure it goes on to say, "But let them not return to their folly."  But I have repented of my sins.  I have confessed my sins.  And as it stands at this moment, I am not experiencing his promise of peace.

Jesus says in John 14:27, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Jesus says in John 8:12, "I am the light of the world.  Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."  My panic attack disorder is literally, me walking in darkness because it affects my walk when I have an attack.  It makes me uncoordinated and akward for all to see  and scoff at and I can't even help it.

Galatians 5:1, "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.  Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

2 Timothy 1:7, "For God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind (king james) or of self-discipline (AKA self-control)." 

Romans 8:15, "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear."


There are many more "promises" that God has spoken of in his word that really flat out contradict the fears that most people on this site are going through.  I am obliged to believe what God says even over what I am experiencing, but I need help.  So I set this topic for us to discuss (particularly Christians).  How can we reconcile this dilemna in our lives? 

Today I went with 2 Corinthians 12:9 taken to heart, but I had a terrible attack anyways.  It reads, "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."  Here God is saying that He will do it for you through His power and not by our own power.  I know that we Christains are not supposed to rely on our own power.  I have a whole bunch of biblical academic knowledge that I have yet to turn into experiencial application.  Please give me your take on these things.

What it boils down to for me is this:

The Peace that I have in Christ is the Peace that, at the end of the day, I know in whose Hands I reside.  I know that, whatever is happening in my life, God is overseeing it and is working it out for my good.  This is the Peace that God refers to in His Word.  I firmly believe that God is allowing me to go through the trials of anxiety so that I might be a better representative of the Body of Christ on the other side.  I am learning how to be a follower of Christ amidst terrible struggle. 

The reason I believe this is because God has always shown up when I needed Him...prior to my anxiety and during my anxiety.  He hasn't always made His presence known when I WANTED him to, but, as I look back, He's never let me down when I needed Him.  I am a better person now than I was a year ago...even after all of the crap I went through with this anxiety.

The bottom line, in my estimation, is that, as Christians, God is going to glorify His Kingdom through us.  This, in turn, will fulfill His promise of joy in our lives.  We may not understand how this process will unfold, but, in staying Faithful and trusting Him, we will reap the benefits.

[abaggett2]

Bama..beautifully said.  Amen

[Statesman63]

I have always wondered, and more so lately ....Why does God allow terrible things to happen to people who believe in Him? My fear is cancer. I watched my mother suffer & die form it and I can't understand why does God allow mothers to be taken from their children? I have always wondered these things & never found a "safe" place to ask them.

Great question.  There is a great verse in the bible: Isaiah 57:1, "The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil."

There are really many reasons throughout the bible why God lets us suffer, but ultimately, Christians should know that God loves us anyhow. 

One reason we (Christians) suffer is because we were adopted into His family and he disciplines us as sons and daughters.  The bible in fact says that if we are not disciplined then that is a sign that we are not part of God's family--we are not saved.  God does not discipline those who are not His children.  Here is the verse:  Hebrews 12:8, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons." 

Also, James says that our suffering develops perserverance in us and makes us stronger than we were before we suffered.  It is a growing tool.  James 1:2, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing fo your faith develops perserverance." And look at what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 1:8b-9, "We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even life. Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death.  But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead."  So Paul is saying that his suffering brought him closer to God.  If God can raise the dead, surely he can get me out of my despair, Paul is saying.  If we were to never suffer, our faith would never develop.  Life would be too good to come to God with all of our hearts.  Suffering brings us closer to God than living a life free of suffering. 

One more point, suffering brings God glory.  Even Jesus suffered for us, which, brought the Father glory.  Jesus tells us to take up our cross (which means a life of suffering) and follow Him.

Just know that God is there for us in our suffering.  The bible says, "You will suffer many trials, but take heart because I have overcome the world."  God wants to display His power in your life so that He gets the glory and praise of bringing you through your suffering. 

Remember, Adam sinned, and through him all have sinned.  Jesus didn't HAVE to die on the cross for us and take away the punishment that was due to us.  Out of His love for us He took our punishment that we deserved upon Himself, freeing us from our fate of eternal hell fire to a glorious eternity of peace and joy without suffering.  If we are in Christ, there will be a day that God will wipe away all of our tears for the last time.

[Statesman63]

I agree wholeheartedly with sixpack.  For me, God is not  punishing or punitive, but  positive and loving.  I also do not believe in the demon thing or that our anxiety is caused by us being possessed by demons.  For many people, thinking that would just cause a ton more anxiety!   For me the Bible is a book of parables and stories meant to guide us in a broader sense.

I understand why people do not want to consider themselves possessed.  But there should be no anxiety incurred due to the thought.  Like I already pointed out, the bible calls fear a "spirit."  And if we are on these boards then we have that spirit within us.  I know I'm a Christian, and I know I'm saved, and I also know that I have that evil "spirit" in me.  Spirits can either be good or evil.  The Holy Spirit is a Person, the third person of the Trinity God-head.  In the bible, a spirit is an angel.  We are also spirits.  When we drop our fleshly bodies when we die, our spirits will be with Christ if we are saved.  One day, Christ is going to come back with us and raise up new bodies that will meet our spirits in the air and we will be renewed within a twinkling of an eye and have new perfected bodies.  Spirit is not an attribute, but a person.  The spirit of fear is demonic forces who's personality is fear in those they affect.  Don't be afraid of that concept.  That is actually good news and I'll explain why. 

For one, the fear is not you.  Those thoughts that you think that tells you not to fear, are not your thoughts, but the demon's thoughts.  You can go with confidence and rebuke those thoughts, not claim those thoughts or act upon them because they are not your thoughts.  This is all completely biblical.  I'll try to quickly summarize:

Basically for the Christian, we are a new creation in Christ.  The new has come and the old has gone. (2 Cor. 5:17).  God has purified, perfected our spirits, but unfortunately for us, our bodies have not been perfected through the Cross, just our spirits.  The new you is free of sin, cannot sin, and is perfect.  Yet we sin.  We sin because we are in the flesh, that is, our bodies that has a strong inclination to sin.  Here is the key: We are no longer sinners, we are saints who sin.  Romans 7:14, Paul shows that his thoughts that tell him to sin are not his thoughts, but the flesh's thoughts.  We are not the flesh.  We are the spirit that is housed within the flesh.  The flesh has it's sinful thoughts.  We have our righteous thoughts and we do have the choice of acting on either one.  But we must know who we are in Christ to know that we have the power to not act on the thoughts of the flesh.  He says in verse 14, "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin."  Please follow these next verses closely.  Verse 15, "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."  Paul will soon say why he has this conflict within himself.... Verse 16, "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good."  I could explain this verse, but it is too explanatory and will lead me away from the point I'm making here (not important for now).  Verse 17, "As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me."  Say what Paul?   Did you just say that the sin that you do is not you who do it?  Yes!!!! That is exactly what he says.  Remember, Paul's new self has been perfected with Jesus' righteousness and cannot sin, rather it is the flesh within him that sins.  Verse 18, "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh."  Note there are 2 Pauls here.  The flesh Paul, and the new spirit Paul.  Continues, "Fro I have the desire to do what is good [the flesh thought], but cannot carry it out.  [Verse 19] For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the eveil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing."  Why Paul?  Verse 20, "Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."  Here he repeats that it is not Paul who is sinning, but the sin in him that sins, that is, the flesh in him that is doing the sinning.  What is this flesh that makes Paul sin?  He says.  Verse 21, "So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.  [verse 22] For my inner being I delight in God's law [his inner being is his new self or spirit, by the way]; [verse 23] but I see another law at work IN THE MEMBERS OF MY BODY, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work WITHIN MY MEMBERS (body parts). [Verse 24]  "What a wretched man I am!  Who will rescue me from this BODY OF DEATH?"  Verse 25, " Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"......

The flesh is just that, our flesh.  Our hands are flesh and they want to touch what God commanded us to not touch.  Our mouths, tongues and vocal chords are flesh, and they want to speak what God commanded us to not speak.  Our brains are flesh and they want to think thoughts that God commanded us to not think.  Our feet are flesh, and they want to go where God told us not to go.  Our hearts are flesh, and they want to love things, like money that God said don't love.  And look at Romans 8:10, "But if Christ is in you, your BODY is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness." 

So without being possessed, all Christians have to battle the thoughts of the flesh, which are not our thoughts.  Satan and his goons can make suggestions to our flesh, enticing it to entice us to do their biddings.  But when they come on the inside and abide with us, they always have that direct access to make those suggestions, but they are still not your thoughts and we don't have to act on them.  We can renounce those thoughts.  THe other reason why this is not a bad thing is because we can be healed completely from it.  There is a cure to demonic possession.  Jesus.  For some, like myself, I believe, there can be more than one demon of fear inside, holding on.  So when I get some cast out the others are there, struggling to hold on and the cure is simply to keep attacking them with the word of God until they leave.  Remember, when Jesus was tempted at the mount, Satan didn't leave on Jesus' first attempt at getting rid of him.  Satan didn't leave at Jesus' first scripture quote to him or his first rebuke to him.  Satan tried to hold on.  It took 3 scriptures; 3 rebukes from Jesus for Satan to leave him.  It can be done.  But imagine if we never accurately diagnose the root cause.  We may never get healed if we don't because we will never fight them with the correct tools: weapons from God.