Depression caused by a crappy life, OR crappy life causes depression?

[Amber]

I'm wondering if depression is something that you have for no reason and it causes you to hate your life, or is it a condition that naturally happens if you hate your life for a long enough time?
 
I won't go into detail because it would be a VERY long post, but I've never been really happy with my life, and it's always bothered me but lately I've felt like I really need to do something because I'm starting to notice symptoms that I've never had before and I don't want to end up suicidal. Like I've lost interest in things that I used to love. And I have felt very drained and just wish I could stay in bed half the day. I can't even exercise because I have no energy and just want to collapse onto the couch. I find myself avoiding happy people because it bothers me that they are too happy to notice that I'm not, and I don't want to complain and bring down the mood.

I've talked to some people about my problems on other forums, they tell me I just have to change my perspective. Like everything can be seen in a good way if you just look at it differently. Well, I can't. I see nothing good about some of my problems. Am I giving myself depression, or is there something chemically screwed up in my brain that is making me think my life is horrible?

I can't go to a doctor because I don't have a job so I have no health insurance, and I'm broke so I can't afford to pay out of pocket.

[spitfireatme]

I think actually both depression and a "crappy life" work together to produce each other. Example: You feel depressed, so you don't exercise, and thus you don't achieve something you wanted to, which makes you feel more depressed, which causes you to not want to do other things, etc.

I've recently been thinking that depression is highly tied to lack of purpose and meaning in life (I guess this is the view of 'logotherapy'). If you're depressed and feel like life isn't worth living, maybe that's because the current kind of life you're living ISN'T worth living and your body and mind are telling you to live a better life, to enjoy the beauty of life, to live a life that IS WORTH LIVING - the meaningful life. Meaning takes a lot of work, courage, and effort, though, so it's not something that will come overnight, but one can achieve a smaller sense of meaning immediately by doing some kind of small, good deed.

[kjohop]

Hi,
I was actually having the same thoughts today.. I am having some mild depression with my GAD and I hate it.
I am questioning things that I wasn't necessarily questioning before.. it is so confusing.. did I get depressed b/c my life is not fullfilling right now or is my life not fullfilling b/c I feel depressed.
I am interested to see what everyone has to say b/c I am struggling with this as well.

[Amber]

I think actually both depression and a "crappy life" work together to produce each other. Example: You feel depressed, so you don't exercise, and thus you don't achieve something you wanted to, which makes you feel more depressed, which causes you to not want to do other things, etc.

I've recently been thinking that depression is highly tied to lack of purpose and meaning in life (I guess this is the view of 'logotherapy'). If you're depressed and feel like life isn't worth living, maybe that's because the current kind of life you're living ISN'T worth living and your body and mind are telling you to live a better life, to enjoy the beauty of life, to live a life that IS WORTH LIVING - the meaningful life. Meaning takes a lot of work, courage, and effort, though, so it's not something that will come overnight, but one can achieve a smaller sense of meaning immediately by doing some kind of small, good deed.

Yes, this is true! Of course I think life is worth living, but not so much this current life situation I'm in. And it does all feed off everything else, if one area is lacking, it will contribute to another area going bad too. I have problems with courage, hard work and effort, though, so I think I need a miracle to get out of this mess! 

[thinker247]

Hey guys,
Some of the stuff in this post resonates with me. I've been especially depressed lately and I find myself asking myself all kinds of existential questions like "what is my purpose?" or "has my entire life been decided because of anxiety and depression?". I have been asking myself these questions for over a year now and I am still stagnant. I am really beginning to think that this overly intense introspection and search for a purpose is just a symptom of depression and anxiety. I too have lost interest in things that I used to love. I have often been pushing myself to feel things lately. It's kind of silly, but what I've been doing lately is sort of an exercise in feeling things. I push myself to think of myself in different careers, in a nice relationship, having fun in the hopes that eventually, I will step outside of my mind and try it for real. I google different jobs, universities, grad school programs just to sort of rev up my mind. If the idea stays in my mind long enough I am happy because it means I'm on to something. Anyway, my point is that I am also going through a sort of existential, purpose search, and even if it is a symptom of depression, I am immersing myself in it and trying to use it to my advantage. You and I might just get something out of it. Hope this helps.

[kjohop]

That is an interesting approach.. there are 2 schools of thought here... embrace it and see if it leads you somewhere or treat it like the intrusive thought it is and accept it but let it float past?
My therapist leans toward the second option as she sees those types of thoughts as symptoms and to entertain them is to encourage them.
But...  could it be that maybe you are just in need of a little existential examination? I know i am from time to time. I was so close to looking into retaking Philosophy 101 at the local college, just for fun. Who knows? Our emotions function to help us solve problems.. the thoughts are either meaningful and purposeful or they aren't.
If the googling excites you with the idea of change and new possibilities, maybe that is something you need? It is hard to tell.. but in my opinion.. trying anything to wake up your mind is good. As long as you are not googling symptoms (that was one of my problems  )

Hey guys,
Some of the stuff in this post resonates with me. I've been especially depressed lately and I find myself asking myself all kinds of existential questions like "what is my purpose?" or "has my entire life been decided because of anxiety and depression?". I have been asking myself these questions for over a year now and I am still stagnant. I am really beginning to think that this overly intense introspection and search for a purpose is just a symptom of depression and anxiety. I too have lost interest in things that I used to love. I have often been pushing myself to feel things lately. It's kind of silly, but what I've been doing lately is sort of an exercise in feeling things. I push myself to think of myself in different careers, in a nice relationship, having fun in the hopes that eventually, I will step outside of my mind and try it for real. I google different jobs, universities, grad school programs just to sort of rev up my mind. If the idea stays in my mind long enough I am happy because it means I'm on to something. Anyway, my point is that I am also going through a sort of existential, purpose search, and even if it is a symptom of depression, I am immersing myself in it and trying to use it to my advantage. You and I might just get something out of it. Hope this helps.

[Amber]

Hey guys,
Some of the stuff in this post resonates with me. I've been especially depressed lately and I find myself asking myself all kinds of existential questions like "what is my purpose?" or "has my entire life been decided because of anxiety and depression?". I have been asking myself these questions for over a year now and I am still stagnant. I am really beginning to think that this overly intense introspection and search for a purpose is just a symptom of depression and anxiety. I too have lost interest in things that I used to love. I have often been pushing myself to feel things lately. It's kind of silly, but what I've been doing lately is sort of an exercise in feeling things. I push myself to think of myself in different careers, in a nice relationship, having fun in the hopes that eventually, I will step outside of my mind and try it for real. I google different jobs, universities, grad school programs just to sort of rev up my mind. If the idea stays in my mind long enough I am happy because it means I'm on to something. Anyway, my point is that I am also going through a sort of existential, purpose search, and even if it is a symptom of depression, I am immersing myself in it and trying to use it to my advantage. You and I might just get something out of it. Hope this helps.

That's exactly what I do!! I have spent the better part of this last year (since I lost my job) feeling out different options and trying to see which ones would work best. It's fun to think and dream, it just loses it's fun when you can't decide and then you end up getting lazy and come up with excuses not to do anything. I really hope we can figure out what our purpose is!! I think you're right when you say searching for a purpose might be a symptom of anxiety and depression...because happy people are too busy doing things and having fun and enjoying their lives, and we just end up thinking about why we aren't enjoying it!

[thinker247]

It looks like we are going through very similar experiences, Amber, and after reading your response to my post, I think that we are both stuck in this cyclical thinking. I like how open I have been to all these new alternatives, but the truth is that in an entire year, I have not really explored any of them.

It's fun to think and dream, it just loses it's fun when you can't decide and then you end up getting lazy and come up with excuses not to do anything.

You could not have described my situation right now better than in this quote, Amber. I have gone over so many scenarios but have never had the courage to make a decision or a move since last year. I think our minds are stuck in neutral but the engine is still running, if you know what I mean. Unfortunately, I am not seeing a therapist or taking any meds right now and this is bound to continue unless I break the cycle some how. I hope you have more support than I do right now. At the very least, know that I definitely relate to your situation.

[Amber]

Wow it is amazing how similar our situations are! And even for the same length of time too! I was fine with it before but now that it's been over a year, it's starting to make me feel like it's MY fault why I can't do anything, rather than blaming everything for not being the perfect choice. I kept feeling like some perfect solution just HAS to come along, or some magic thing that would fix it all overnight. I'm a thinker, not a doer. I (we) need to take control and DO something!

I am not sure how much support I have, really...I can't talk about this stuff with my family or friends since they are part of the problem, so I've had to turn to online help. Ahh, you gotta love the internet, where you can always find someone who has the same problems!  We'll definately have to keep each other posted, maybe support each other!? 

[thinker247]

Hey if the people here are helping you to vent, keep at it, Amber, and you can definitely contact me if you need any support. I will do the same from my end.

[Amber]

I'm actually having a good day today, I am reading this book called The Emotion Code...it basically says that almost all of us hold trapped emotions in the form of energy in our bodies and this causes mental and physical pain. Someone recomended it to me and it sounds promising that it can fix most (if not all) of my problems! Maybe you should check it out too! I also got this ebook someone sent me, this seems pretty promising too... http://masteringalchemy.com/pdfs/spiritmatters_ebook.pdf

[Peter]

The original question is a good one. I'll just give you the simple facts.
Depression is not caused by events. It is a problem with the thought process. It is also heavily influenced by chemical reactions in our brain.
A crappy life can make you feel very low, depression is different.
Replace the word 'depression' with 'Suppression'. It is most usually an absence of emotion. Indifference. Not caring.

[Amber]

That makese sense, Peter! I'm wondering if I never had depression at all but rather was just stuck in an emotional state where I was just lower than I've ever been. I'm actually doing wonderful lately, I still don't have a job but certain things have happened here and there to make my life better and I am thinking more positively in general. I think if what I had was really depression, it wouldn't have only lasted a few weeks.

[Peter]

If you can read books, (personally I lack the focus to be able to do so) "Your erronious zones" by Wayne Dyer. He explains how we mistakenly react to things.
E.g. A break up (or threat of) is actually grief. Grief naturally makes us feel awful. Loose someone close through death is obvious, but equally is losing someone without death. The loss often feels just as bad.
Feeling low can be helped by positive thoiughts. Depression not quite the same. Both are awful, but need differing treatments.
Find a 'fantasy' (not sexual). A day dream, something that you want. Maybe a holiday, but imagine it, Focus on detail, how it feels the little things. So, maybe winning the lottery, who would you tell? What would you first do? IN DETAIL. This is actually not much diffrent to the reality, similar chemicals are released by your brain. It is then possible to feel better without it being real. Obviously do not actually try to live that life... just rehearse it mentally.

I suffer depression, I also understand the beast. I have real problems (nothing to do with being depressed). The two things are seperate, though neither helps the other :)
I struggle to want to get dressed. I ignore life. I feel no pleasure. That's my depression. I also feel low, that's my reaction to the real world and my problems. One is natural the other is not.

[Amber]

If you can read books, (personally I lack the focus to be able to do so) "Your erronious zones" by Wayne Dyer. He explains how we mistakenly react to things.

I love Wayne Dyer!! I don't have any of his books though but I've seen a few of his seminars. I'll check that book out!

E.g. A break up (or threat of) is actually grief. Grief naturally makes us feel awful. Loose someone close through death is obvious, but equally is losing someone without death. The loss often feels just as bad.

I haven't experienced a break up or death in many years, so my problems weren't related to grief at all, just realizing that my life is not what I wanted it to be and seemed to be only getting worse. There are still parts of my life that I don't forsee getting better, but I guess Ive just been mostly trying not to think about those parts. 

I've been thinking about how I said that things I used to enjoy I don't enjoy anymore...I think what is happening is that I am just evolving and changing as a person so I don't get as much out of other things anymore. I've really been into personal development/enlightenment, and they say one of the "symptoms" is that you don't feel fullfilled by your own life anymore, like you are above all of the things you used to identify yourself with. I think that's partly what is happening too.
 

[Peter]

My refernce to grief wasn't aimed at you personally. Just an example of 'emotional' pain.
Please understand I wasn't trying to diagnose you or anyone specifically.
We all get trapped into reacting in certain ways to everything. We are our own worst enemy.
I forget the exact quote... but something like.. "give me strength to deal with those things I can change, comfort to deal with those things I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference."
If a situation is bad, we should change it. Or change how we think about it.


:) Easily said...
BUT remember we can change how we feel about things. Just not easily.

Today the sun is shining I feel peaceful (that's my painkillers), just wish I could find the will to put socks on and get dressed.
 

[Bama21]

Today the sun is shining I feel peaceful (that's my painkillers), just wish I could find the will to put socks on and get dressed.
 

That's an interesting comment that I think might speak volumes about the different types of depression.  When I was experiencing depression as a result of my anxiety, I was a nervous wreck.  I was in a black hole of despair, unable to feel positive emotion AT ALL...and it was just adding to my anxiety.  I never once felt "peaceful" during that time.

My depression has strictly mirrored my anxiety.  If my anxiety is up, my depression is up.  If it's at a minimum, there is barely any depressive thoughts.  I've always maintained that I don't really have "depression"...but just a manifestation of anxiety.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that...

[Peter]

 

[Peter]

Sorry, I missed a point you made. The 'black hole'. Yes I visited that pit. That was 10 years ago. Your expression says it all. Every bit of you hurts and nothing seems to help.
I crawled out of that over time. My current state is just part of the road to recovery. (At least that is what I prefer to believe)

[CoolCalmAndCollected]

I haven't read the whole thread but thinker247, if you are reading this, you sound like me!  Anyone who wants to, do me a favor and go over to the hypochondria board and read my thread "afraid to go to the doctor - should I nip it in the bud?"  I'm rambling over there about what is probably more like depression.  It doesn't help that my husband and I sympathize with each other that we simultaneously try to talk each other out of feeling like losers and we egg each other on (we're too much alike, which is a good thing for camaraderie but a bad thing because we're bad examples for each other.)

I keep coming back to feeling like I do nothing right, or at least nothing the societally approved-of way, and I also look at graduate school programs online when I don't truly want to go back to college, and I imagine what it would be like if I started dressing and acting like a Stepford wife to get some friends and have some people act like they can at least understand me, because right now I feel like no one does, and feel that no one likes me, or that they are at least puzzled by me and talk about me when I walk away.

Hello... paranoid-type thoughts setting in, and that just HAS TO signify some depression, right?

[Peter]

It seems that one of my posts has been deleted? Apart from the emoticon at the end?
Sadly I didn't save the content anywhere, so I am not sure what was said.

I'll just say that I gave a full reply to the question I was asked.

 

[charlie1]

I've never been diagnosed with depression, but I've always felt my life to be pretty pointless to a greater or lesser extent. In the past I've masked these feelings with alcohol and cannabis, but don't do either now. From my own perspective, I believe my situation to be caused by genetics, upbringing and to an certain degree, personal choice, even though it seems hard for me to believe that I'd choose to be depressed. Life events, and unrealised dreams only further debilitate my condition and situation. As long as a person has an attainable ambition and hope, then depression is reduced. At the moment, I feel quite low, maybe like a mid-life crisis, as I've attained none of the things I'd hoped that I would ie decent job, life partner, children, and probably never will now. The key for me lies in the acceptance of my situation, rather than bemoaning what might have been. I have many friends, but they're wrapped up in their own lives, understandably, and the only person that can rescue me from my way of thinking is myself. It seems an effort, but buddhist thinking does help as it says all fears and sadnesses come from cravings/desires, and that if they can be let go of and the moment just lived in the present, expecting nothing, then contentment can be reached. It seems a bit bleak, but it does help, and even if a person does attain what he aims for, it can all be lost in the blink of an eye, so inevitably depression would return.

[Peter]

I know almost nothing about Buddhism. But I would be cautious about anything that implies you should not strive to achieve.
Sure, accept who you are and what you are really capable of. Just don't give up on yourself. If you have kicked drugs (of which alcohol is simply a legal one) that takes real effort. So You DO have strength.
We all need to challenge our own thinking, have goals (ambitions) and work towards attaining them. Think about how business operates. We decide on a target (goal) work out how to achieve that (business plan) and work our way along that plan.
Apply it to anything. Life partner? Put yourself into situations where you will meet people. Smile, ask about people’s lives, be interested in them...... they will be interested in you. Job? Put your CV. together, what can you do? Put a gloss onto it. (Job centre will help with that). Turn up- looking smart and be interested.
Everything can be done. There are no limits to the ability of people. They just don’t know it. 
PS Cannabis and alcohol are both depressents. They didn't mask it, they kept your low feelings going.

[charlie1]

I know almost nothing about Buddhism. But I would be cautious about anything that implies you should not strive to achieve.
Sure, accept who you are and what you are really capable of. Just don't give up on yourself. If you have kicked drugs (of which alcohol is simply a legal one) that takes real effort. So You DO have strength.
We all need to challenge our own thinking, have goals (ambitions) and work towards attaining them. Think about how business operates. We decide on a target (goal) work out how to achieve that (business plan) and work our way along that plan.
Apply it to anything. Life partner? Put yourself into situations where you will meet people. Smile, ask about people’s lives, be interested in them...... they will be interested in you. Job? Put your CV. together, what can you do? Put a gloss onto it. (Job centre will help with that). Turn up- looking smart and be interested.
Everything can be done. There are no limits to the ability of people. They just don’t know it. 
PS Cannabis and alcohol are both depressents. They didn't mask it, they kept your low feelings going.

I get what you're saying about striving, planning and having ambition, but I believe that is where a lot of mine and other peoples troubles arise. Buddhism is all about not striving and just living in the moment, accepting what is and letting go of what isn't or can never be. All aspirations, whether for personal money gain, emotional advancement or whatever are what the western lifestyle is all about, and there are record levels of unhappiness, social isolation, relationship breakdown and avoidance behaviours like alcohol or drug misuse to try and escape difficult feelings and emotions. Depression is usually anger turned against oneself, rather than aggression which is when these same or similar feelings are externalised, projecting blame onto others.
I agree with what you say though about taking interest in others, showing interest in their lives, etc, as there's nothing more boring for people to have to listen to someone moaning, when they've got troubles of their own, and ultimately we can only save ourselves, or sink

[Amber]

Wow I'm pleasantly surprised at where this thread has gone! It is interesting, about the whole Buddhism thing vs. striving for your goals. I have heard both sides are right, happiness can only be found in the present moment, not worrying about the past or the future but just surrendering to the moment. Then I've also heard happiness can only be found when you have something to life for, such as goals.

I have the problem where I can't get myself to take action. I can make goals up the wazoo, plan every last detail, organize everything, analyze everything, but then never actually START. I don't know what that is all about, maybe I'm just a natural thinker and not inclined to be a self starter. So how do people change, if it's how you naturally are?