I feel condemned...

[Warbirdwf]

I think you're on the right path now Wisp. Like I've shared before, we both were on the same horrible road. Doctors/psychiatrists trying different meds for months causing our anxiety to explode from the start up/discontinuing side effects. I did the same thing as you. I went back to an SSRI that had worked in my past (Paxil). I was also on Seroquel and Remeron. Within a few weeks, I felt SOOOO much better after months of high anxiety. Fast forward to today. I'm taking 30mg of Paxil and am down to 7.5mg of Remeron. I'm starting to have more good days then so, so ones and feel I'm on the road to recovery.

I like the plan you psychiatrist has you on and really believe once you're body gets use to the drugs, you're going to feel soooo much better!!

Keep posting how your doing my friend.

[WiSp]

It's the 5th day on zoloft and zyprexa. It's rough...zoloft boosted my anxiety for now and it's the worse. I'm dizzy, tired, and I got my first brain zap today. I feel also weird, like not my usual self and having some mini panic attacks. I hope it's only temporary. I would not be ready to go to 50mg so fast, but I've only 3 pills left for 25mg. I hope it will change fast during the next days.

[Door]

Thank you for keeping us updated.

You've gone through the initial side effects before.  You can do it again.  The first week is always the roughest, no matter how low the dose.  It's like the body is all confused with the change.  The bad side effects should not last longer than 2 weeks, if that.  Typically, they disappear in a matter of days.  I hope that this is true for you.  You deserve relief.  I'm keeping you in my thoughts.

[WiSp]

Since my anxiety is still crazy day after day, I don't think it's a good idea to double the dose. I was supposed to do so, tonight. I've no more 25mg pills, only 50mg. I will have to separate the powder in 2, like I've done one year ago to wean zoloft slowly. Maybe I need one, two or three days more, I don't know. It's the first night that I don't sweat, and it can mean that my body is getting used to zoloft. I think a bit of time still on 25mg is what I must do until it calms down. Depression also returned a bit, but not entirely. I think all antidepressants mess up everything at the start, it worsen anxiety and depression. Same thing when you stop them. I hope it will slow down soon...I would like to up the dose fast to end this hell, but I can't go so fast when it worsen everything. With zyprexa in the background, it can change the things too. I don't know. But right now it's exhausting. It's pretty much like when I started celexa...

[Warbirdwf]

Wisp-

You are soooo due for some relief from your symptoms. Hang in there as you know it WILL get better. Are you taking any benzo's to allow you some peace?

Just so you know, when I started up Paxil again, it too shot my anxiety up for the first week. By week two, I could tell I was already feeling better and each week continued to improve more and more.

[WiSp]

I've decided to continue on 25mg for now...50mg would be too much. I carefully separated the powder like I was doing during the last year...I hope I separate it correctly. I will certainly not have 25, but maybe 24 or 26. I put it in a glass of water, diluted, the taste is horrible but not much as this anxiety. I put the remaining powder in the capsule and I will take it tomorrow, as for another 25mg. I feel like I need 2 more days or 3 at 25mg. Yes I've a lot of xanax but I try to use them less as possible. It stuns me so much.

[scared_silly]

Stupid doctors.... Can you not get a private? I now how u feel...I am terrified of medications. But I must ask...what is a benzo rx and psychosis? I was perscribed an ssri but I am scared of taking them although I do. if benzo rx helps I would love to learn more about what they are.. I'm so sorry your going through this wisp.. Its not fair. I hope all goes well for you and I will certainly include you in my prayers.

[Bama21]

Stupid doctors.... Can you not get a private? I now how u feel...I am terrified of medications. But I must ask...what is a benzo rx and psychosis? I was perscribed an ssri but I am scared of taking them although I do. if benzo rx helps I would love to learn more about what they are.. I'm so sorry your going through this wisp.. Its not fair. I hope all goes well for you and I will certainly include you in my prayers.

By "benzo rx", he means a prescription for a "benzo" (benzodiazepine...Xanax, Klonopin, Valium, etc)  Those types of meds are EXCELLENT for temporary relief of anxiety.  The downside of them is that they can be highly addictive if abused.  Still...I highly recommend a benzo to take as needed when trying to adjust to an SSRI.

[WiSp]

I thought about updating my "story". I decided to up to zoloft 50mg after one week and 2 days on 25mg even if it was harsh because I want to get rid of all this fast. Anxiety is still very strong, but I have some less rough moments during the day, especially when everyone sleep. Depression returned a bit surely because of the upping of the dose, with some side effects. If it's like the last time, it should go away in a few days. I'm still taking zyprexa too, at 2.5mg since 2 weeks and 4 days. I'm still very scared of people, have weird and dark thoughts, but I think I manage to live like this, for now. Anxiety is probably more manageable than before, when I was always calling help phone lines and begging for help. However all this fighting for help has done something. Not long ago they called my psychiatrist and asked him if I really need psychological help and if yes, if it's urgent. I don't know what he said, but the result is that I jumped above a minimum of 20 clients in the waiting queue (for having a psychologist) and they told me that there is not a lot of people before me now. So the waiting will not be 6 months but I don't know when. Even if I still don't believe that I can be back to normal, I hope zoloft and zyprexa will do like for Door, i.e. turning back to normal with lexapro or at least like Warbird, to really feel the change on paxil and feel better. But it seems the waiting is more manageable than what it was. With zyprexa I eat normally too...I got 2 pounds, and I need to take more to be at a healthy weight. But since I wake up after 12:01pm I don't eat much like I could do with a normal day. But I'm still doing this to skip a part of the days, to skip the pain of anxiety. When I will start to have peaceful days, I will wake up early.

[Door]

Wisp, I am so happy to see more hope in you.  It seems like your symptoms are becoming more manageable.  I hope you continue to improve and live life better than before.  You are long overdue for this suffering to stop.  I still think of you.

[WiSp]

I don't understand, my anxiety is globally at full strength again since 3 days. The thoughts are the worse. And I got a specific zyprexa-headache back, it was over since 3 weeks. I don't understand why anxiety is back like this again and I hope it's temporary. 2 weeks and 3 days on zoloft 25mg and one week and one day at 50mg. Yes I guess it's too soon to get anything good. Maybe the good part was random? Or maybe it's the same event than when I stopped zoloft during the last year. I got a full week of a very good global feeling. Maybe it's the same when we get higher doses and it has nothing to do with the final result. I hate when I don't understand what is happening. I imagine too much things. I hope that this return of anxiety is normal and temporary. Time is very long.

[Warbirdwf]

Wisp-

Don't over think it. It's your Zoloft in my opinion. Your body needs a few weeks to adjust to your new dose. I know that sounds like a long time when your anxiety is so high. I hope you can take a benzo occasionally to give you some relief. It should improve quickly.Keep your focus on how much better you'll feel..

[WiSp]

I'm sorry I suppose this is all "normal" due to my condition and with the meds I take...But sometimes it's so unbearable, like now today I got a new obsessive thought that my parents have to "disappear" for me to feel good. Of course I could not kill them and I don't want to! I'm even not an aggressive person! But the idea doesn't go away! It's like if all of a sudden I feel that they are responsible in some way and that I must choose between me or them. It put me in a panic state when I think about it. It reminds me of Door that was afraid to sleep thinking that she could harm people during her sleep. I try to convince me that all this is normal for now, that any crazy thoughts can come and that I must just hang on...But imagine how you feel when you have those things in mind, it's very hard to not panic. I know they are just thoughts, but they are poisoning me.

[WiSp]

I thought a lot about it and I think zyprexa doesn't do what it was doing at the start, i.e.: preventing me to cry, helping depression, helping a lot for food (wanting to eat and having pleasure to do it), and probably helping a tiny bit for anxiety. I remember how I was before I start zyprexa. I was...pretty much the same as today. A human wreck. I took it each day, never forgot a time. I know that zoloft is hard at the start but I'm pretty sure that zyprexa doesn't do anything anymore and it's a shock for my body. My psych said (almost one month ago) that I would probably need to go at 10-15mg, it's a lot! But now I'm at 2.5 and he will surely put me on 5. If I'm right, going to 5 will bring me the positive stuff that I'm losing right now. Or the possibility that it makes my anxiety worse, but objectively I think more that it was helping somehow. Can an antipsychotic stops to work like this after some time? Like a benzo does on me after several days. But zyprexa worked for 3 weeks (almost...I felt something changing during the last days). Will it happen again at 5mg? Who knows...maybe zoloft will do something during this time...I will only be able to see my psych in a week...I will try to talk with his nurse tomorrow and see what is happening and if we can do something...

[WiSp]

Just to continue the story for people interested...I've being able to call my psych office. The nurse talked with him. The verdict is that my condition needs more zyprexa. So he said to double the dose. From 2.5 to 5. He said it's normal that my anxiety and depression are so bad and that I've no control at all. That zyprexa doesn't work anymore, because I need more. So I just took 5mg now...we will see what will happen. Zoloft stays unchanged for now. I continue to take 50mg. The nurse was kind and said to not be afraid, that it will not turn me crazy and that it should work very good.

[Door]

Based on what you've written, I think the Zyprexa is helping.  The depression must be kept in check. 

A friend was on Abilify for depression, and she needed 15 mg, thought the typical dose for depression is 5 mg.  It worked out.

I like that you are taking it slowly.  It seems to ease your mind a bit.

[WiSp]

Thank you Door. It makes me think that it will work for my anxiety at higher dose. My psych said to me at the beginning that he thinks I would need 10-15mg for this to work. Maybe he's right. Anyway after a day I don't expect results and there is no change either. Based on the first time that it changed something for depression, it should take 3 days.

[WiSp]

I'm back with some news. My condition is still very bad, with no significant change, but it's somehow manageable, depending on the day. But today I up the doses. From zoloft 50 to 75 and 100 in one week, and from zyprexa 7.5 by today to 10 in one week. My psych explained to me that I may need to reach a threshold dose for this to work, both for anxiety and depression. And that because zyprexa boost zoloft, I may not need to go up to 100mg. He also said that there is nothing much to do during the waiting. Options would be to up faster but it will drive me crazy, or being hospitalized to manage it like we need, but I don't want this. So I'm still living like in a cage for now, afraid to just go outside my room and I must wait by trusting meds to give me peace soon. It takes forever but it's the way it works...By the meantime I try to get a psychologist faster (I'm still in a waiting queue). I don't know how I will go there but I feel like I need to work on my life, to understand how it's possible to come to live like this, how everything happened. I need desperately to understand and to know what to do. And phone lines are of no help at all. I need real pros. I really hope to post good news here one day. I feel like even if my anxiety would be gone, my life is so screwed up and that I will not be able to live peacefully in this complex society. But I guess it's something to work with a therapist. That's why I say that I need one. And I will continue to push the system to get one fast. With a lot of money it would not be a problem. But I've not much and my parents don't work anymore. Even my brother want to help with money, if it's to get a good therapist. He worries for me and don't mind to spend cash for "something so important" he says, even if he just bought a house.

[Daisy131]

any update?

i just wanted to share- my doc put me on abilify to augment the super super low dose of zoloft i am taking. because i can't tolerate the side effects of any higher dose, she said the abilify (she mentioned zyprexa too) would go straight to the obsession and kill it.

i was in a very simlar place as you, convinced i was experiencing delusions and psychosis brought on by my obsession and fear of having bipolar. i was angry with my therapist that she couldn't make it go away, and 5 months later, the obsession is still here and very much entrenched in my mind. this is why the doc pulled out the big guns, and was very careful to tell me that she is using it completely off label for what it is used for.

[WiSp]

There is not much anything new Daisy. I'm still feeling very bad, after a week of zyprexa 7.5mg. Since yesterday I'm on 10mg and 100mg for zoloft. They told me that their psychologist will take new people next week. I don't know if I will be in the firsts. I fear to look people in the eyes, even my own parents and when anxiety raise by doing it, I get panicked to have this reaction. I obsess, seeing possible psychosis everywhere. When I hear a distant sound I analyze to know if it could be an hallucination...Until now, zyprexa does nothing at all for anxiety or obsessions. Like I know my psych, he will surely go to 12.5 of zyprexa and even 15mg. I'm afraid that it will do nothing again and I will be forced to withdraw it and try something else. He said that there can be a threshold for it to work, but I'm not very confident...but what else can I do...I still sleep until 2pm to kill a part of the days and I try to kill time like I can. So far I've been on:

zoloft 25mg: 5 weeks
zoloft 50mg: 4 weeks
zoloft 75mg: 1 week
zoloft 100mg: 1 day

zyprexa 2.5mg: 4 weeks
zyprexa 5mg: 2 weeks
zyprexa 7.5mg: 1 week
zyprexa 10mg: 1 day

I note everything. Zoloft make me very drowsy and zyprexa give me pain everywhere, make me dizzy and give me some headaches. Everyday it's a battle and I see no end to all this. If only I would not have the feeling that things go worse, it would be already better. I can't say how my obsessions worsen. It's very hard to evaluate because they change and some stay, but it's always unbearable. You know, when you get scared to imagine eyes when you look at lights of a car, and you panic because you see you get scared a second about this, you really wonder what next will it be and how to not fear psychosis when you are this deep into...But what I obsess the most is surely my fear of people, looking them in the eyes and this kind of inability to accept reality like it is. Will those obsessions will go when anxiety will? I don't know. I've never been so deep into anxiety and I really don't know how all this will turn. It's another thing to obsess about. I feel disconnected from reality, and I see me often "above", like if I feel leaving my body a moment, and upon returning to it I get an anxiety rush. I'm plagued with all this all the day along, with sometimes some moments of peace. It's hard to just leave my own room.

[Daisy131]

hang onto those moments of peace- i hope that they come more and more often.

have you ever had depersonalization before? this sounds exactly like what you are describing...seeing yourself from outside of yourself.

[Bama21]

Wisp, all of those symptoms are anxiety induced.  SEVERE anxiety, yes...but definitely anxiety.  The fact of the matter is that you aren't in this position because of your fear of headlights...or your place in the universe...or looking into someone's eyes.  You're in a debilitated state because of your FEAR OF those fears.  Being constantly on the verge of panic wondering if you can handle different stimuli in the world is all about the anxiety, not the actual stimuli.  Your logical brain knows that headlights are electronic devices on cars.  Your anxious brain is telling you "Hey man, those look like eyes.  Wait...where did THAT thought come from?  I'm not going to be able to get that out of my head.  I can't handle all of this!!!!!"

All of that you probably already know.  The question is:  what to do about it?  The medicines WILL help if you can get there with them.  They'll help how you react to your thoughts.  Right now, your thoughts make you panic.  The medicine will keep you from panicking at every thought.

As for other things, what have you tried? 

[WiSp]

I've tried nothing, really. Never got any therapies. I got bad psychologists, and some good. Right now I'm in a waiting queue to have one. I hope to have a call during the next week. I don't know what I will do there and even how I will get there. But I guess I've no choice to take anything...I will also buy the famous book from Claire Weekes that everyone is talking about. I would rather buy a book on severe anxiety. But it doesn't seem common enough for such a book to exist. Because I'm able to read sometimes. Thank you for making things more clear about what is happening to me. My meds are stunning me a lot now. I will surely have to go to my bed often. I'm very drowsy. Sometimes I imagine myself in your shoes and trying to help me. I know that it can be maybe frustrating for people to try to help me by explaining things, when I seem to repeat myself on what is happening. But I'm grateful. I sometimes re-read the posts. I know that my condition make me to think badly. But it's my own reality for now and it's hard to just ignore what's happening. Yes Daisy I have depersonalization, no doubt. I must have pretty much all the possible symptoms of anxiety. In the past I got anxiety but never so strong. I've never been obsessed with stupid things like right now. That's why it sounds new and more scary than never before. And that's why I always ask to myself to where will it go and that I doubt about meds to solve this, even if they are probably the most potent solution for me right now. About meds, I do what I must do. I take them seriously and never forget a dose. The evening meal is still a very bad moment. I can eat at other times, but this meal is different. I'm like scared to eat. The only way I can explain it is linked to the obligation to eat. It's like if I say a big "no" to any life obligations. It's maybe depression, but it causes an heavy anxiety. I'm scared to eat, scared to not be able to eat anymore, scared of what will happen then, etc. It's a chain of thoughts. I often panic at this meal. Later in the evening I eat with no problems. I'm still hoping to see the first normal day to come, since a long time.

[Door]

This has gone on too long!  In my life, I went through 8 months of straight hell, and in 2000/2001, one year of absolute hell.  Enduring anxious depression has been the worst experiences of my life.  I don't know how I survived.  The right med combo pulled me out so that psychotherapy could work.  The waiting time though ... I never want to go through that again.  I'm scared that I will go back to that place.

We have similar experiences in symptoms, severity, and duration.  It pains me that another person is going through it.  I wish I could help you.

Your prescriptions are appropriate.  (Although, I think you deserve a long acting benzo like Xanax XR or Klonopin for now to bring the anxiety down.)  It's just a matter of waiting to see if they'll work for you.  The waiting, dear Lord.  What are you doing with your time?

What I did was watch mindless TV.  I loved Monk, Law & Order, Bones, etc.  I put together puzzles to keep my mind occupied.  I colored.  I went on walks around the block.  I did everything I could to hold myself together until something worked.  And yet, I still went in-patient.  I swear, it was the best thing I did.  It was hard putting all my trust in the staff, letting go of all my control.  I cried for days.

The most therapeutic value of in-patient care is that I was around others who understood.  I had no need to explain my disorder to the other patients, vice versa, and we could talk to each other like normal people.  I felt normal, despite all the panic attacks.  I felt comforted.  I still keep in touch with them.  They are lawyers, teachers, artists, etc.  I'd have never guessed that they struggled.

What I suggest is to:

1. Keep yourself busy during the waiting time.  When people do left-brain activities, like counting prime numbers or doing Sudoku, it pulls their attention away from the right brain, where the emotions live, and can lower anxiety and depression.
2. Sleep all you want.
3. Go to support groups, like AA or NA, just to listen, because by seeing others struggle everyday and survive, you may start to believe that you will get through this too.  Dr. Marsh Linehan (famous ground breaking psychologist) suggests it.  Please consider Emotions Anonymous if it is available in your area.  It is not prevalent as AA and the attendance tends to be lower, but I do think that connections with others who suffer will help.  I go to EA as much as possible.  http://allone.com/12/ea/

I hope this helps.  I am still keeping you in my thoughts.

[Bama21]

Wisp...I meant to post this the other day, but I didn't have time...

You obviously have a lot of different points of anxiety that you are struggling with.  Your mind is being controlled by your anxiety which is causing all kinds of stimuli to make you anxious.  In my opinion...having experienced a similar situation in a bad patch that I went through...this anxiety is purely related to your having lost all confidence.  You feel as if you have lost all control which is causing you to question EVERYTHING because it seems like EVERYTHING has the potential to cause anxiety.

It seems to me that you are in dire need of a boost of confidence that you have some measure of control over your anxiety.  I was thinking that maybe you could take one specific fear and work on it.  For instance, you mentioned that you have the thoughts that car headlights look like eyes and this thought causes panic sensations.  Obviously, the fear is coming from the thought, not the actual car lights.  How about some exposure therapy for that particular fear?  Go outside at night and watch the cars go by.  Watch all of the lights of all the cars.  Tell yourself that these are electronic car lights that you have been around all your life.  It's natural to think they look like eyes because they kind of DO look like eyes...especially since they sit right above the grill which looks like a mouth!  Repeat to yourself that this is NOT something that can cause anxiety unless your anxious mind convinces you that it is a threat.  I would suggest writing all of this down on paper.  Writing does wonders for giving the sense of control and also helps you to focus.

The result of this would hopefully show you that you DO have some control and that your mind is capable of embracing logic and reason and that it doesn't HAVE to be controlled by anxiety.  Maybe you could build some confidence and turn this small victory into something bigger.  Have it build on itself.

Good luck and I'm praying for you!