My thread

[Optimist_101]

Hi guys, I just want to start out by giving you a run down on my GAD and then I'll ask for advice on how to beat it.

I've been battling GAD for as long as I can remember. I'm 23, never had a gf, have a hard time setting goals and achieving my dreams. In fact, I don't have any dreams at the moment as I'm living a conformist day to day grinding life. As a result of my condition, I feel/pretty confident in the fact that I'm not living up to my full potential and I want to beat it and get on with my life. From what I've read, GAD occurs quite often due to concurrent conditions such as depression and substance abuse. I'm quite certain I don't have anything of the sort. I can't help but feel like my GAD is a lot weaker and hence a lot easier to vanquish than what other people may experience. I think that if anything, my concurrent condition is my low self esteem, which is really not a medical condition. Let me be a bit more specific. I feel like I can achieve anything and attain anything, this is pretty much contradictory to what I just said. The problem is that I'm not always like this. I'm very inconsistent in pretty much all respects of my life. Around some people that I meet, I can feel completely at ease, whilst around others, I will fall back into my shell and begin my spiral out of control.

It's this lack of consistency that I believe has been the reason behind my lifelong struggle with GAD. I only diagnosed myself with it relatively recently. I've seen psychologists and doctors and only the last psychologist was of any use and was indeed the first 3rd party that told me I had GAD. It has taken me quite some time since that diagnosis to get a grasp of what GAD is and realise the extent of it in me. I previously thought it was depression simply because it's more common so I simply assumed that that's what I had but anyway. I have quite a lot of the symptoms that GAD sufferers have so I'm pretty adamant that I have finally stumbled no my true condition. I used to get flushes (haven't had them in a while) but their presence a long time ago suggests that I've had this condition since I was a young kid. I've always been very fidgety and although I'm getting less fidgety now as I'm paying attention to it and trying to relax myself every time I start to fidget, the fidgeting is still there. I've got cold hands and feet (I read somewhere that these are symptoms of fear/anxiety or something). Basically, I can say that I'm finally happy that I've figured out what I have.

I'll just say this following thing and then I'll ask for your advice. As I said, I've always been very inconsistent. I think I know why that is and I point out my reasoning a little later on. I can be going well academically for one period and then go really poorly another with no discernable pattern. I can do extremely well, but that is rare. I can be relaxed in a social setting among new people one time and be completely uptight/freaked out even with my mates who I've known for years another. This is something that has caused a lot of confusion and a much slower diagnosis and no doubt will slow down the treatment also. I don't want to take any drugs or do anything serious in that respect. I want to beat this this purely mentally. I've had CBT for a while and that was quite good, maybe I should go back for some more, but GAD says... no don't go back, it'll just be a waste of money, you've got everything out of it that you could.

My GAD also causes me to fear improvement. This is a very important issue I want to discuss also as it is very closely linked with everything else. I'm starting to think that all my issues around people i.e. lack of confidence, all started due to GAD. I might have thought when I was young that it was all due to my lack of confidence or just basic anxiety that everyone experiences one in a while which is consistent with the fact that I pointed out before i.e. that I'm very inconsistent in everything, but I'm now starting to realise just how GAD has shaped my life and how it contributed to a lot of beliefs that I now have. I've been bullied, but unlike most people, I took it to heart. I felt that there was something wrong with me and as a result, I've basically gained this low self esteem. As I said, it happens rather sporadically and around both people I know and people I've just met and has made me believe that I don't deserve to attain those things I desire, be who I am and lastly, improve my wellbeing. I've read the CBT style reasoning behind this dire outlook on improvement i.e. fear that you will once again succumb to GAD and all the progress will be for naught and that the way to think about it is to tell yourself that it will happen again but you will know how to deal with it. That's not a problem. My problem and I believe the reason behind the inconsistent reappearance of the symptoms and feelings is what people say as both friends and strangers can say things that I associate with those same personal attacks that I experienced while being bullied. It's not just the things that are said to me though, as a poor mark, a bad result in a game or whatever else you can imagine that I can associate with being bullied or personally attacked or whatever else it can be that causes low self esteem, can set off the worsening of my state i.e. GAD.

The point that I want to make from all this is that I'm normal (well used to be) most of the time and can fell like crap sometimes. It's almost bipolar in nature but all that happens is irritable bowel syndrome around girls for example (not all the time, but as soon as I feel like I've got really far with a girl, it sets on as I begin to feel like I don't deserve her), inability to speak coherently (well... it's more to do with making sense) around my mates, inability to play the shot in a sports game the way I want or be able to play that tune on guitar that I want. I said "well used to be" only because I used to feel normal at times when I didn't feel like crap i.e. before it was pretty much just anxiety, while now its more GAD and it affects me all the time. I'll say that I've had GAD my whole life, but I think it's just worsened since around 3 years ago to a level where I knew I had to change something.

Anyway, I hope what I wrote isn't too random as I do have a tendency to jump from one thought to another. Anyway, what do you guys think I should do? What advice have you got? I'm pretty mature about this whole think I think. I've pretty much taken a lot of time off to think about all this, to do things that I enjoy, meet my mates etc on as often a basis as I can manage and to basically beat this thing once and for all while I'm still at uni.

[gaugreg1x]

   Greetings..wow..that was alot to digest. You seem very intelligent, and well spoken.
     Did you write that all in one sitting ? If so , I agree with your statement that your mind jumps from one thought to another..not unusual in GAD. I have say I doubt you can beat GAD "once and for all". If you manage to, let me know your secret. I am considerably older than you (actually more than twice your age ..49 ), and have been dealing with GAD for as long as I can remember. I admire your wanting to stay away from drugs especially the benzos , as one can become very dependent on them, and they are very hard to discontinue. Good luck with the CBT.
                                                                                     Greg

[PM93]

You remind me of myself when i was 15-16, maybe i was different but this is the way it went. I use to be isolated with myself most of the time, i was afraid to challenge life and i was just waiting for my turn to get the best out of things but i realised that we are more alone than we think we are. People don't really care much about excuse the term "losers", i mean really the only person who can push you out to challenge life to its fullest is yourself.

What i needed out of life was to be happy, having friends and girlfriend relationships, and knowing that i was heading in a direction(School,Work,career)



- Basicly i started to workout at the gym, lifting weight: It made me feel better about myself, testosterone raised my confidence in a way you couldn't begin to imagine. I was more confident, i was less afraid of confrontation and women seemed to like me alot more compared to my old self. Looks overall/strenght/physical condition/testosterone really do miracles
on self esteem.

-Another way to improve self esteem is to have this mentality that everything new you try and fail at, you become better the next time; like adapting in a way but socialy. I used to jump from one job to the other when i finished school to gain experience in every domain as much as i could and meet people. I worked as a cashier/ Hotel Receptionist/ Customer Service Agent for Telecom Compagnies/Telemarketing/Cook and perhaps plenty more and my self esteem got stronger on its own. I stopped fearing social presence and became more in control. I remember when i first started to work as a telemarketer i was shitting in my pants trying to convince someone on the phone to buy something they didnt want and i was afraid of rejection, eventualy rountine came in place and i kinda realised and got used to the fact that its only people and there nothing to fear about them.y

-Women is another way to gain self esteem, the more relationships you have, the more you develop this inner sense of your own value, after a couple of relationships you pretty much have the recepy figured out and the stress of dating kinda vanishes away. When i was 16 i use to be a nice guy always running after girls and being too nice with them, eventualy i started acting like an asshole because i was kind of pissed at life for being soo hard and thats were they started to like me more. Truth is i was harmless but that illusion i created of strenght/self esteem improved my chances greatly and from this day on this false self esteem developped into real self esteem.

You have to start small, experience models the mind.

I am 22 years old, ive had friends comming and going, serious girlfriends/love relationship/not so serious ones, i have decent experiences when it comes to the job market. Ive always been depressed because i am incapable of enjoying what i have, i always need to have more so i started using drugs now i ended up with GAD. I still have a gf at the moment, of course i can't be exactly as i used to be but after what ive done in my life eventualy things started to become more clear and simple.

Right now i fear my own body from self destruction because of my anxiety, this experience ive gained stays for life and even in my deepest moments of pain i still have my self esteem intact due to it.

My problem is i fear death, i fight it with false courage by knowing i don't have anything to lose. Either i can sit in my house feeling sorry for myself or going out to fight the world. Staying home won't fix it. Probably nothing is wrong with me but i have this deep sense of doom and this is my friend the utlimate pain.

Some people have it worst, so stop being afraid and use those tips i gave you to build your courage from scratch.

[Optimist_101]

  Greetings..wow..that was alot to digest. You seem very intelligent, and well spoken.
     Did you write that all in one sitting ? If so , I agree with your statement that your mind jumps from one thought to another..not unusual in GAD. I have say I doubt you can beat GAD "once and for all". If you manage to, let me know your secret. I am considerably older than you (actually more than twice your age ..49 ), and have been dealing with GAD for as long as I can remember. I admire your wanting to stay away from drugs especially the benzos , as one can become very dependent on them, and they are very hard to discontinue. Good luck with the CBT.
                                                                                     Greg

Yes, I wrote it in one sitting. I always jump around in my thought process. I suppose its due to the low self esteem again, I feel the need to prove myself by being good in as many things as possible and being the best in everything that I do. Therefore I try to think and analyse as many things as I can, never satisfied with my current level of knowledge or skills. I usually edit the stuff that I write at least once at least for basic spelling errors and ensure that the ideas that I express have at least rudimentary links.

[Optimist_101]

 Greetings..wow..that was alot to digest. You seem very intelligent, and well spoken.
     Did you write that all in one sitting ? If so , I agree with your statement that your mind jumps from one thought to another..not unusual in GAD. I have say I doubt you can beat GAD "once and for all". If you manage to, let me know your secret. I am considerably older than you (actually more than twice your age ..49 ), and have been dealing with GAD for as long as I can remember. I admire your wanting to stay away from drugs especially the benzos , as one can become very dependent on them, and they are very hard to discontinue. Good luck with the CBT.
                                                                                     Greg

Yes, I wrote it in one sitting. I always jump around in my thought process. I suppose its due to the low self esteem again, I feel the need to prove myself by being good in as many things as possible and being the best in everything that I do. Therefore I try to think and analyse as many things as I can, never satisfied with my current level of knowledge or skills. I usually edit the stuff that I write at least once at least for basic spelling errors and ensure that the ideas that I express have at least rudimentary links.

You remind me of myself when i was 15-16, maybe i was different but this is the way it went. I use to be isolated with myself most of the time, i was afraid to challenge life and i was just waiting for my turn to get the best out of things but i realised that we are more alone than we think we are. People don't really care much about excuse the term "losers", i mean really the only person who can push you out to challenge life to its fullest is yourself.

What i needed out of life was to be happy, having friends and girlfriend relationships, and knowing that i was heading in a direction(School,Work,career)



- Basicly i started to workout at the gym, lifting weight: It made me feel better about myself, testosterone raised my confidence in a way you couldn't begin to imagine. I was more confident, i was less afraid of confrontation and women seemed to like me alot more compared to my old self. Looks overall/strenght/physical condition/testosterone really do miracles
on self esteem.

-Another way to improve self esteem is to have this mentality that everything new you try and fail at, you become better the next time; like adapting in a way but socialy. I used to jump from one job to the other when i finished school to gain experience in every domain as much as i could and meet people. I worked as a cashier/ Hotel Receptionist/ Customer Service Agent for Telecom Compagnies/Telemarketing/Cook and perhaps plenty more and my self esteem got stronger on its own. I stopped fearing social presence and became more in control. I remember when i first started to work as a telemarketer i was shitting in my pants trying to convince someone on the phone to buy something they didnt want and i was afraid of rejection, eventualy rountine came in place and i kinda realised and got used to the fact that its only people and there nothing to fear about them.y

-Women is another way to gain self esteem, the more relationships you have, the more you develop this inner sense of your own value, after a couple of relationships you pretty much have the recepy figured out and the stress of dating kinda vanishes away. When i was 16 i use to be a nice guy always running after girls and being too nice with them, eventualy i started acting like an asshole because i was kind of pissed at life for being soo hard and thats were they started to like me more. Truth is i was harmless but that illusion i created of strenght/self esteem improved my chances greatly and from this day on this false self esteem developped into real self esteem.

You have to start small, experience models the mind.

I am 22 years old, ive had friends comming and going, serious girlfriends/love relationship/not so serious ones, i have decent experiences when it comes to the job market. Ive always been depressed because i am incapable of enjoying what i have, i always need to have more so i started using drugs now i ended up with GAD. I still have a gf at the moment, of course i can't be exactly as i used to be but after what ive done in my life eventualy things started to become more clear and simple.

Right now i fear my own body from self destruction because of my anxiety, this experience ive gained stays for life and even in my deepest moments of pain i still have my self esteem intact due to it.

My problem is i fear death, i fight it with false courage by knowing i don't have anything to lose. Either i can sit in my house feeling sorry for myself or going out to fight the world. Staying home won't fix it. Probably nothing is wrong with me but i have this deep sense of doom and this is my friend the utlimate pain.

Some people have it worst, so stop being afraid and use those tips i gave you to build your courage from scratch.

My experiences are pretty much identical to yours. I've worked in varied roles including sales for the same reasons that you described. Although a lot of my beliefs about people have been shake as a result, I can't say that my condition has improved markedly. I've tried going to the gym but found it largely useless in the long run as it's not who I am. I've replaced it with other sports I actually enjoy but once again, the effects of the sport only work temporarily. I noticed that there was tremendous improvement (almost a miracle cure) after working out for about a week after recommencing the gym training (due to injuries) on several occasions due to the extra boost of various chemicals like testosterone etc. Problem is, these visible effects wore off rather quickly and was rather remeniscent of various viruses building up resistance to drugs. The same thing happened after I started taking fish oil and st john's wort. I've also stopped being a social recluse and actually started going out quite a bit, in fact upgrade that quite a lot. I'm a lot closer now to who I truly am than I ever was, but the condition doesn't seem to improve. Just like you, I'm never happy with what I have, I've always got that feeling of dread.

In relation to girls, I'm totally disinterested. All this worrying has killed my libido. To make matters worse, I've learned to deal with my lack of success with females by only seeing all the negatives and that makes relationships almost futile. With some girls I can act completely comfortably (I can have bouts of GAD around them and fall back into my pathetic state of mind but at least there are girls who I can be normal around most of the time so thats something I suppose), but with other I'm just a wreck from the word go. The point is, just like with everything else that I've tried like sport, jobs etc, I simply believe/know that getting a girlfriend won't solve the bigger issue and I feel like it's unfair wasting someones time knowing that I'm not totally into them as I would be using them to solve my own issues so this means I'm not even going to attempt getting into any relationships. I know that I fear aspects to both girls and relationships but these fears are minor enough for me to successfully avoid them without causing more harm.

As for building up the courage, once again, having come out of my shell somewhat, having become a more sociable person, I've definitely become a stronger individual. The only issue that I can't quite explain would be the visible/outward expression of confidence vs the inward psychological state. I'm sure I fake confidence sometimes, but certainly not all the time, but I can't help but feel that even when I act confidently on the outside and more or less on the inside, deep down, I've still got some sort of anchor that drags me down. It's a bit like the id, the ego and the superego. The id is the voice of reason, the ego is the voice of temptation and the superego is the thing in your mind that weighs up the id and the ego and prompts you to act in a measured way (at least thats how I think it works) and although acting like an arrogant, rude, selfish prick is an ever present desire, you still need to act in a socially accepted manner. As I mentioned in my first post, I've been living a conformist lifestyle. The problem with that is the ego part of the mind is not being utilised when that happens and you feel no self satisfaction as a result.

I'm going to go off on a tangent right now as I've just made a realisation. The discussion in the previous paragraph centered around confidence, self expression and social conformity. I think I've realised that the bullying has killed my creativity as bullying is in its very nature a fear of being worse than someone. This destruction of creativity has caused me to be unable to express myself fully and hence enjoy life to its fullest. The really crazy thing is that I somewhat see a line that separates the ego and the id that I believe enables some people to live fulfilling lives and GAD sufferers to remain miserable. The key I believe is to do the socially accepted things in a manner that is not in contradiction to your own true self. In other words, by only doing things that are socially acceptable you are not only being socially conformist, but simultaneously you are expressing yourself and hence staying true to your self. After all, if you are sitting in a maths class and you manage to solve a problem in a way that no one else has thought of, you should not be ostracized as you are doing something that is a.) socially accepted and b.) in a manner that you see fit. I believe that what I've just stated is an important piece of the puzzle.

The only problem that I see with this is the fact that as a result of the maturing process and the way that society molds most people into generic drones, this creativity and self awareness and sense of self slowly deteriorate and it then becomes very difficult to be yourself and the true challenge is the road of self discovery that will inevitably bring you to bliss.

[Optimist_101]

Deleted

[PM93]

I think that your problem is you analyse things too much, you have this (maybe im wrong) hidden belief that you will solve the mystery of the universe along with GAD. Too much thinking and analysing makes you only depressed more, realising that things are worst than they actualy are. No one is really themselves nor free, we are all a compilation of years of programming by the social norms,parenting and genetics. We really are but a stylish remake of our parents with a spice of the actual society surrounding us.

Nobody is free, to be free and original and true to oneself you would have to be like a computer without basic programing, only then can you certainly say that you created it out of nothing.

My definition of being true to one self is none other than finding your happyness and after it disolves due to routine is to set a goal for an improved happyness and so on until you die.

Really there is no point in complicating things,  you have some desires no matter how hard you try to explain and supress them, even do you don't accept them because you feel forced to them by the current norms. None the less its still something you have to do.

Ive lost my libido too and i feel more lost than ever. I realised that being a philosopher only deepens your pain and life doesn't have any particular goal other than being a hedonist.

Animals live by 2 rules which are survival and hedonism(eating/reproducing/sleeping) and i don't see why one should believe that we humans are so high and advanced to the point we should start believing we have some different purpose.

Life is not a movie nor a fantasy book, wer all trapped on this planet with nowhere to go with our current or even 500years + technology, on top of that we have to struggle with higher control such as goverment/politics/ideaology/society and most importantly human nature. My belief is that you have to let go of all this nonsense regarding what you believe is true or not because it does not really matter. All that matters is what your EGO desires and means you will use to achieve that goal. Nothing said that you have to be violent or evil to achieve goals, but you certainly have to stay firm and fight for what you think is right with proper facts back it up.

Find your desire whatever they may be, work toward them. Forget about what you think you know, or theorie you have regarding existence in general, many have figure out billions of versions and it was just a waste of time.

For example my goal is to be a psychiatrist, i used to be a medical student who screwed up because of my drug addiction, i would be happy to have a job i would be respect for. My second goal is to have as much fun as possible whitout involving myself in pointless relationships which never last and eventualy become broken due to w/e reason. My last goal is to leave something behind me so i stay immortal , children, book. And in between i enjoy lifes little things like a cup of tea and a good movie.

Stop searching sense in nonsense, or else you will become even more crazy and depressed.

I think you need to let go, i know its hard but its the only way....and i believe you probably know exactly what im talking about.

[axslinger]

I am somewhat reluctant to reply for two reasons: 1) I am battling my own demons and 2) Political Correctness.  But I'll give it a try.  First, for those of you who do not believe in a higher power, don't take offense.

I believe our level of self-confidence is directly proportional to our relationship with God and Jesus Christ.  When we break it down, what we really believe, in a social setting is that people are judging us.  There are three things at work in that scenario.  First, it is clear your relationship with God is weak or wavering.  Why?  Two, because if it weren't you wouldn't care one iota what others thought, as long as you were comfortable in Gods eyes and you know you are perfect in his eyes and finally, if your relationship with God was strong, you would welcome others into your life and your presence as they were created in his image just as you were.  Just as they cannot judge you, nor can you judge them, because in God's eyes, you are all created in his image.  If you are treated less that what you would expect, that is their cross to bear, not yours.

I think the inconsistency in your life could very well be a mild form of bi-polar, or even perhaps something as simple as your bioryhthmic cycle.  I happen to play guitar as a hobby.  There are times when I am "geeked" to play my guitar, to learn something new, learn a new song.  Then I will go a week or two and not pick up a guitar.  I know I have mild bi-polar behavior.  It is not such that I need medication, but it does alter the consistency of my behavior to a degree.  I think when you don't do well at something, your level of interest is low.  Plain and simple.  The more I'm interested in something, the more apt I am to excel at it.  When the interest level is low, I struggle to focus.  As long as it isn't something that negatively affects my life or well being, I accept it as "that's just the way I am".  If you wish to pursue it further, you could get some blood work done to analyze your nutrient levels, etc.  I have found that consistent exercise has created a more consistent "personality" for myself.  I'm less moody, feel better about myself, I'm more confident around others, etc.

I too take things personally.  When something is said at work that might be meant as constructive criticism, I will at first just let it go.  Then I will start to replay it.  Then I will pick it apart and convince myself it was a thinly veiled "cheap shot" that they got over on me.  That crates a negative "vibe" between me and that person, even though I may be the only one who feels that "vibe" because in reality, they weren't taking a cheap shot and didn't mean it personally at all.  Now I've created my own reality that only exists in my mind! This all goes back to your spiritual beliefs.  If you are strong spiritually, then there is nothing anybody can do or say that will stick, because you are already perfect to the One that really matters.  You carry the infinite power that can transcend any and all adversity.  Remember, Gandhi defeated the British Empire without firing a single shot.  It's Power vs. Force.  Power is gentle, subtle and omnipresent.  Force is limited and only has limited ability.

Regarding the feeling of dread...I'm still dealing with that.  That's why I'm here.    But, in those moments when I'm clear, I realize that I really do value life and I really DO want to live.  I spent a large part of my life with the attitude of, "Ok, I finished HS, went to college, had kids, they're now grown, so what's left?".  And I felt like I was just biding my time until it was time to move on.  I was always thinking about death and how I sort of wished for it so I could "get on with it".  But I think I'm starting to realize that part of the reason for my recent recurrence of anxiety and panic attacks is because I really don't want to die! I love my wife, I want to grow old with her, I love my family and I'm really working on seeing the beauty of everyday life unfold around me.  But I have to stress, this is only when I'm clear and not walking around foggy or trembling from anxiety.  But I also realize that when I'm like that, it's not the real me.  It's not the spirit of who I am.  I think what I am going through now, and the things we go through every day, God is molding us into something better, even though it does't feel like it.  Think about how good it feels when you're not in that "bad place".  It's almost like heaven.  I think that's Gods way of telling me, "you don't really want to die".

Again, I have my own issues so I am certainly no authority.  But, much like you, I DO analyze my thoughts and behaviors and try to learn something profound from them.  And I think I am, little by little.  Being able to be completely open with my wife regarding my trials and tribulations has helped immensely. I don't have to be embarrassed or ashamed when I'm in that "bad place".  I just tell her "I'm not doing well right now" and she knows exactly what I'm talking about.  Just knowing that she's OK with it, makes me fell a little more "OK".

Please remember, everybody on this forum is a little "lost", so I'm not an authority in an any sense of the word.  But like everybody else, I try to analyze my own life and situations and make some sense of them.  Best of luck.  I'm sure you will have some breakthroughs, no matter how small, and they will change things immensely

Ax.


So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.  Isaiah 41:10

[PM93]

Religion is good if it helps one find hope, but there are many people around the world who are probably in more pain than we will ever be and they believe even more blindly than most of you here and still it doesn't seem that there life is any better.

Religion is one approach to endure GAD but you have to believe it blindly knowing your faith lies in gods hands. But for individuals like me who simply cannot believe to that extend, even if i tryed believing in all that religeous propaganda i have too many questions and issues regarding modern religion to simply just agree totaly. So many religions, so many versions of religeous books and half of it smells like a quick way to make money.

I definetly believe in a higher power for the reason that there must be, it is logical. In the universe being infinite the probability of a higher power is infinite but nothing proves so far that it directly acts with our lives.

People who are pure and good from the heart and deserving suffer and there is no justice to that, and the answer you can expect from one religeous person believing they hold the key to the truth is: God works in mysterious ways or have faith in the lord.

Truth is we are on this earth, we need to hold on to something for hope to struggle troughout the harsh periods of our lives, but in the end it is your own determination and inner strenght which will overcome your obstacles. Some never find this strenght and who should they blame? Higher powers?

All this talk about power is inconsistent with anything, for everything to happen it requires proper elements to be in place and sacrifice. Gandhi did not fire a single shot but the masses followed him and died for his beliefs, muslim and hindus destroyed each other and still do to this day. Anyone can say that each of us have the power to do anything we desire, it is partialy true as with everything else it requires stabilized factors working with each other. One cannot cure GAD if once constantly worries, one cannot stop worrying if one has stress about everything everyday things.

Can't make an omelette whitout breaking eggs.

You need to stop the philosophy lectures, start dealing with elements/GAD the way you were supposed to in the begining, with your instincts, desires, ego and intellect. Once you cure yourself, be proud of yourself and not of some higher power.

[libby]

Truth is we are on this earth, we need to hold on to something for hope to struggle troughout the harsh periods of our lives, but in the end it is your own determination and inner strenght which will overcome your obstacles.

Hey Optimist,
I think there comes a point in our lives, when we have to say enough is enough. It is within us to change the way we think about and view the world and ourselves. We all deserve everything and anything we want from this life. It is ours to take if we make the choice. The only thing standing in our way is us. It won't be easy to change the way we have thought for so long, but it is possible.

You said you have had CBT therapy... For how long did you practice the tools you have learned? In my opinion it's when we give up and give in, that our intrusive thoughts come back.

Be brave. The brave choose to move forward in spite of being afraid. It's a deliberate choice they make that overrides how they feel.
Those that over come anxiety disorders are brave. They too have to learn to move forward in spite of how they feel. Choosing to move forward teaches us that we can, despite feeling fearful. Choosing to move forward frees us from succumbing to the feelings of fear.

Be brave in spite of how you feel. You can be brave. You can choose to forge ahead.

[Bama21]

Religion is good if it helps one find hope, but there are many people around the world who are probably in more pain than we will ever be and they believe even more blindly than most of you here and still it doesn't seem that there life is any better.

Religion is one approach to endure GAD but you have to believe it blindly knowing your faith lies in gods hands. But for individuals like me who simply cannot believe to that extend, even if i tryed believing in all that religeous propaganda i have too many questions and issues regarding modern religion to simply just agree totaly. So many religions, so many versions of religeous books and half of it smells like a quick way to make money.

I definetly believe in a higher power for the reason that there must be, it is logical. In the universe being infinite the probability of a higher power is infinite but nothing proves so far that it directly acts with our lives.

People who are pure and good from the heart and deserving suffer and there is no justice to that, and the answer you can expect from one religeous person believing they hold the key to the truth is: God works in mysterious ways or have faith in the lord.

Truth is we are on this earth, we need to hold on to something for hope to struggle troughout the harsh periods of our lives, but in the end it is your own determination and inner strenght which will overcome your obstacles. Some never find this strenght and who should they blame? Higher powers?

All this talk about power is inconsistent with anything, for everything to happen it requires proper elements to be in place and sacrifice. Gandhi did not fire a single shot but the masses followed him and died for his beliefs, muslim and hindus destroyed each other and still do to this day. Anyone can say that each of us have the power to do anything we desire, it is partialy true as with everything else it requires stabilized factors working with each other. One cannot cure GAD if once constantly worries, one cannot stop worrying if one has stress about everything everyday things.

Can't make an omelette whitout breaking eggs.

You need to stop the philosophy lectures, start dealing with elements/GAD the way you were supposed to in the begining, with your instincts, desires, ego and intellect. Once you cure yourself, be proud of yourself and not of some higher power.

Well...as a follower of Christ...I would disagree entirely with your outlook on Faith, but that is an entirely different subject.

As to the basic premise behind both of your post as it relates to anxiety, I think it's some of the best insight I've seen on this board.  Specifically, I agree completely with your premise that complicating our lives and constantly searching for answers that our human brains cannot possibly fathom...is useless and can only lead to disappointment. 

In my own anxiety disorder, one of the issues I have dealt with is gazing into the future.  The future seems large and overwhelming because I know that I must face it with anxiety.  I'm beginning to train myself to focus on one day at a time and one issue at a time.  Why ruminate over how many instances of happiness I will have over the next ten years when the only thing that matters right now is being happy today?  Control what I have the strength to control now...in my own life.

Good stuff.

[Snuz]

Please remember, everybody on this forum is a little "lost", so I'm not an authority in an any sense of the word.  

Hi Ax,

I don't want to take over someone else's thread, but I would like to make a comment about your statement. Everyone on of this thread is "imperfect" I don't think lost is an appropriate word.

Blessings

[Optimist_101]

I think that your problem is you analyse things too much, you have this (maybe im wrong) hidden belief that you will solve the mystery of the universe along with GAD. Too much thinking and analysing makes you only depressed more, realising that things are worst than they actualy are. No one is really themselves nor free, we are all a compilation of years of programming by the social norms,parenting and genetics. We really are but a stylish remake of our parents with a spice of the actual society surrounding us.

Nobody is free, to be free and original and true to oneself you would have to be like a computer without basic programing, only then can you certainly say that you created it out of nothing.

My definition of being true to one self is none other than finding your happyness and after it disolves due to routine is to set a goal for an improved happyness and so on until you die.

I’ve been told by many many people that I overanalyze things. Part of the problem is that I not only need to be aware of this but also completely understand what this means in order to fix this problem.

A child can be told that McDonalds is bad for health and two things may happen. The child might follow the advice blindly and never eat McDonalds or get educated on the topic and understand the reasons why it’s bad for you and that it’s not in fact lethal to go to McDonalds once in a while. The same principle applies with every change that we make in our lives. We must either follow others’ advice blindly or understand at least rudimentary aspects of the topic and therefore fix the problem by understanding when to act in the way that is seen as counterproductive and when it is acceptable. The problem is that I haven’t figured out what thinking too much is all about.

The social programming comment is true to some extent but although we are all united by the fact that we are living on the same planet and are brought up in the same society, the fact that each one of us has differing experiences means that we are in fact all different even though the core may be the same due to the unifying aspect of us all living in the same society. (didn’t phrase that last comment eloquently but I hope you get my point). Anyway, all this means that we are none the less unique despite certain similarities in our programming and this minor discerning aspect to us, drives our individuality.

The most important point that I’m trying to put across is relevant to the point I was making before with the maths class analogy. We may all need to eat, sleep, go to work etc but that is the only thing that unifies us. The way we go about doing these things is open to interpretation on an individual basis and this is the key to happieness. It’s to live in society and do everything that society does but doing it in ways that are in line with your own upbringing. Hope that makes sense.

Really there is no point in complicating things,  you have some desires no matter how hard you try to explain and supress them, even do you don't accept them because you feel forced to them by the current norms. None the less its still something you have to do.

Ive lost my libido too and i feel more lost than ever. I realised that being a philosopher only deepens your pain and life doesn't have any particular goal other than being a hedonist.

Animals live by 2 rules which are survival and hedonism(eating/reproducing/sleeping) and i don't see why one should believe that we humans are so high and advanced to the point we should start believing we have some different purpose.

Life is not a movie nor a fantasy book, wer all trapped on this planet with nowhere to go with our current or even 500years + technology, on top of that we have to struggle with higher control such as goverment/politics/ideaology/society and most importantly human nature. My belief is that you have to let go of all this nonsense regarding what you believe is true or not because it does not really matter. All that matters is what your EGO desires and means you will use to achieve that goal. Nothing said that you have to be violent or evil to achieve goals, but you certainly have to stay firm and fight for what you think is right with proper facts back it up.

Find your desire whatever they may be, work toward them. Forget about what you think you know, or theorie you have regarding existence in general, many have figure out billions of versions and it was just a waste of time.

I’ve thought about this and I agree to some extent. The part of me that disagrees with the animal comparison is the ideal self that wants humanity to be something it perhaps isn’t/never will be i.e. greater beings. To deny a possibility that we are in fact special, denies creativity itself and therefore all hope. I believe it has been stated that the difference between humans and animals is something along the lines of imagination and drive which causes us to not only live day by day in a bid to survive like animals but to dream and achieve goals which animals can not do apparently. Although it may be attractive to live in a belief that you can simply be a glutton, there is evidence that that is not the way to be. The fact that we’ve not yet had a nuclear war is a perfect example of this as the future after nuclear war does not appeal to us anywhere near as much as blowing up the country we might hate. This means that people are not quite as animalistic as it might be convenient to believe.

For example my goal is to be a psychiatrist, i used to be a medical student who screwed up because of my drug addiction, i would be happy to have a job i would be respect for. My second goal is to have as much fun as possible whitout involving myself in pointless relationships which never last and eventualy become broken due to w/e reason. My last goal is to leave something behind me so i stay immortal , children, book. And in between i enjoy lifes little things like a cup of tea and a good movie.

Stop searching sense in nonsense, or else you will become even more crazy and depressed.

I agree with this to some extent but I believe have learned a lot from my over analysis. I’m sure Einstein was doing the same in the field of physics but at a much higher level. Although psychologists may claim in CBT that what you imagine is not true, I can say that I’ve seen evidence that generalizations which are relationships that are present in nonsense do indeed exist. Therefore I’m somewhat discouraged with CBT as it is to an extent naïve of this fact.

I think you need to let go, i know its hard but its the only way....and i believe you probably know exactly what im talking about.

Once again, I agree with this statement but not in its entirety. To let go entirely is to fall victim to ignorance. I think a better solution would be to stop taking everything personally and realize that everything is reversible. If someone tells you that you are an idiot, that may in fact be true (at least relatively) but this is reversible as it is only a fact relatively, which means that unlike saying that someone has a physical disability which is an absolute statement, relative statements are not eternal and may be challenged and upturned.
A

I am somewhat reluctant to reply for two reasons: 1) I am battling my own demons and 2) Political Correctness.  But I'll give it a try.  First, for those of you who do not believe in a higher power, don't take offense.

I believe our level of self-confidence is directly proportional to our relationship with God and Jesus Christ.  When we break it down, what we really believe, in a social setting is that people are judging us.  There are three things at work in that scenario.  First, it is clear your relationship with God is weak or wavering.  Why?  Two, because if it weren't you wouldn't care one iota what others thought, as long as you were comfortable in Gods eyes and you know you are perfect in his eyes and finally, if your relationship with God was strong, you would welcome others into your life and your presence as they were created in his image just as you were.  Just as they cannot judge you, nor can you judge them, because in God's eyes, you are all created in his image.  If you are treated less that what you would expect, that is their cross to bear, not yours.

I think the inconsistency in your life could very well be a mild form of bi-polar, or even perhaps something as simple as your bioryhthmic cycle.  I happen to play guitar as a hobby.  There are times when I am "geeked" to play my guitar, to learn something new, learn a new song.  Then I will go a week or two and not pick up a guitar.  I know I have mild bi-polar behavior.  It is not such that I need medication, but it does alter the consistency of my behavior to a degree.  I think when you don't do well at something, your level of interest is low.  Plain and simple.  The more I'm interested in something, the more apt I am to excel at it.  When the interest level is low, I struggle to focus.  As long as it isn't something that negatively affects my life or well being, I accept it as "that's just the way I am".  If you wish to pursue it further, you could get some blood work done to analyze your nutrient levels, etc.  I have found that consistent exercise has created a more consistent "personality" for myself.  I'm less moody, feel better about myself, I'm more confident around others, etc.

I’ve looked into this and I’ve made an effort to change my diet and make it more consistent and nutrient filled i.e. healthy. I have noticed much more consistency in my behavior and emotions although the fact that I’m so conscious of both diet and the effect of inconsistency that I’m trying to combat, it might all be simply a placebo effect. Rather interesting to note that we find reality so difficult to interpret objectively.

A

Religion is good if it helps one find hope, but there are many people around the world who are probably in more pain than we will ever be and they believe even more blindly than most of you here and still it doesn't seem that there life is any better.

Religion is one approach to endure GAD but you have to believe it blindly knowing your faith lies in gods hands. But for individuals like me who simply cannot believe to that extend, even if i tryed believing in all that religeous propaganda i have too many questions and issues regarding modern religion to simply just agree totaly. So many religions, so many versions of religeous books and half of it smells like a quick way to make money.

I definetly believe in a higher power for the reason that there must be, it is logical. In the universe being infinite the probability of a higher power is infinite but nothing proves so far that it directly acts with our lives.

People who are pure and good from the heart and deserving suffer and there is no justice to that, and the answer you can expect from one religeous person believing they hold the key to the truth is: God works in mysterious ways or have faith in the lord.

Truth is we are on this earth, we need to hold on to something for hope to struggle troughout the harsh periods of our lives, but in the end it is your own determination and inner strenght which will overcome your obstacles. Some never find this strenght and who should they blame? Higher powers?

All this talk about power is inconsistent with anything, for everything to happen it requires proper elements to be in place and sacrifice. Gandhi did not fire a single shot but the masses followed him and died for his beliefs, muslim and hindus destroyed each other and still do to this day. Anyone can say that each of us have the power to do anything we desire, it is partialy true as with everything else it requires stabilized factors working with each other. One cannot cure GAD if once constantly worries, one cannot stop worrying if one has stress about everything everyday things.

Can't make an omelette whitout breaking eggs.

You need to stop the philosophy lectures, start dealing with elements/GAD the way you were supposed to in the begining, with your instincts, desires, ego and intellect. Once you cure yourself, be proud of yourself and not of some higher power.

I’ve read the discussion on the topic of religion and here’s my take on it. Firstly, I’m not the most religious person out there but I’m interested in it and have made quite a lot of progress in my enlightenment on the topic (at least I think so). I believe that religion is very personal and is only comprehensible on an individual level. What this means is that if you take the time to study it, you will make certain conclusions about it, god etc. What I definitely do not agree with is to blindly follow something that you do not understand which is sadly mostly like the truth for at the very least some followers. The fact that each individual interpretation of it may be so different, I can’t really comment on this discussion as this would require the judgment of each of your understandings of religion and god and I don’t want to do that.

I will say that my belief in god (at least my interpretation of god) is weak indeed (as you pointed out) and this is what I’m trying to figure out here. No offense but based on my understanding of ?stuff?, you have restated what is really the topic of this thread i.e. why I’m/we are having these issues. The question is how do I fix all this and as I stated before, I think the solution lies in learning to be an individual which really is the way god intended us to be.

A

Truth is we are on this earth, we need to hold on to something for hope to struggle troughout the harsh periods of our lives, but in the end it is your own determination and inner strenght which will overcome your obstacles.

Hey Optimist,
I think there comes a point in our lives, when we have to say enough is enough. It is within us to change the way we think about and view the world and ourselves. We all deserve everything and anything we want from this life. It is ours to take if we make the choice. The only thing standing in our way is us. It won't be easy to change the way we have thought for so long, but it is possible.

Totally agree, the hard part is walking the walk and not talking the talk. Lot’s of psychological things stop people from doing just that e.g. greed, fear, denial etcetc.

You said you have had CBT therapy... For how long did you practice the tools you have learned? In my opinion it's when we give up and give in, that our intrusive thoughts come back.

Be brave. The brave choose to move forward in spite of being afraid. It's a deliberate choice they make that overrides how they feel.
Those that over come anxiety disorders are brave. They too have to learn to move forward in spite of how they feel. Choosing to move forward teaches us that we can, despite feeling fearful. Choosing to move forward frees us from succumbing to the feelings of fear.

Be brave in spite of how you feel. You can be brave. You can choose to forge ahead.

[/quote]

I did CBT with the psychologist for about 3 months and have not used a lot of the techniques he recommended as I didn’t quite understand them. I have been none the less doing my own version of questioning beliefs on what I believe to be more or less, consistent basis for quite some time.

I believe the giving up part is the most pertinent part of your statement. It’s funny because, I only figured out what giving up means quite recently. My friend presented me with an analogy that I finally was able to use to understand giving up. I’m confident it has changed my life.




To sum up, thanks for the discussion, some great points were raised guys. Great to discuss them.

[Optimist_101]

I had another revelation that I felt I should share. I've realised the reasons behind a lot of my failures. By taking things personally, and dampening my self esteem, I've learned to be a poser in order to compensate my apparent inadequacies. I've learned to live a lie and as a result avoid a lot of the feelings, situations, people. People have said that I'm very impatient and this just as the overthinking persona is another aspect that I need to explore and understand a bit better. The impatience causes me to rush decisions, words etc and not think through a lot of the stuff that I do. As a result I ended up saying things that weren't totally in line with what I believed/knew which added to the negative responses that I received from people which adds to the whole broth of self worthlessness and reduced self esteem.

[axslinger]

Please remember, everybody on this forum is a little "lost", so I'm not an authority in an any sense of the word.  

Hi Ax,

I don't want to take over someone else's thread, but I would like to make a comment about your statement. Everyone on of this thread is "imperfect" I don't think lost is an appropriate word.

Blessings

I suppose I was projecting.  When I am at my worst, regarding anxiety, I feel personally lost.  However, even when I feel great and my anxiety is at bay, I'm still imperfect.

[Snuz]

Ax - I totally understand.

S